A500, ACA 500+ with Blizzard 060. Questions about ACA 500 + menu and Boing Bags 2

[rjd324]

Updated 24/March/2021 at: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...5&postcount=11 [[switched from using 3.9BB to 3.1.4]]

I always try and figure these things out before turning to the forums. But I am completely stuck.

Some of this writing it as I actually test things out!

The hardware:
- Amiga 500 Rev 6A with 1Mb chip memory onboard and a 1Mb Mega Chip.
- 8375
- 3.1 ROM chips onboard.
- Aca 500 + (menu/update V0.135)
- P5 Blizzard 060 Rev 5 60MHz (32Mb)
- GBAPI RTG card (This is the checkmate with the zorro extender)
- I am using SD cards in the primary CF slot (CF to micro SD card extender): the card is an 8Gb card formatted into 3 partitions with the boot partition set to 500Mb. All partitions are formatted with PFS3AO. Using PFS from Aminet and using ID: 0x5046503 and using max transfer 0x1fe00. This was setup in WinUAE ready to be taken to the actual amiga.
- The AUX slot is just a CF card for storage
- ECS indivision

The goal:
I want to use the hardware above and be able to run Workbench 3.9 (BB2) including the ROM update that comes along with BB2.

What I have done:
- Just to go into a little more detail and as said before, I have set this up using WINAUAE. The RTG card just remains plugged in but no drivers are installed.
- In the ACA menu I have disabled everything I can. At this point, I essentially just want the ACA to act as a bridge between just allowing an A1200 accel to be attached. (http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?...1&d=1610239989)

What happens:
- I turn the power on and I get the multi-colored "blizzard window" (now known as the MCW for short) and then just a black screen. it hangs.
- I think to myself: maybe I should turn on MapRom? Okay, I will do that toward the A1200 card (F2):
- so now, we change the settings in the ACA menu to MAP ROM A1200. I turn the whole system off for 10 seconds or so and start it up again
- This time, just before the MCW I get the messages from the ACA:
Copying ROM to MapROM
Updating A1200 accelerator
The MCW and again, black screen. nothing happens.
- Okay, I will leave that setting as it is and map ROM to A1200.
- I recall that I had problems with the A1200 and BB2 rom update and I modify my startup-sequence to : "SKIPROMUPDATES "scsi.device" QUIET (in order to do this, I will turn the machine off. start it up and just press F1 which is ACA's default 3.1 configuration. I insert 3.1 WB diskette and use that to modify the startup-sequence. I add in the line to SKIPROMUPDATES.
- I turn the power off and I wait and I turn it back on
- Again, the two messages just before MCW and then just a black screen.
- Okay, this time I will just run: Setpatch NOROMUPDATE (just to remind: ACA all options off but for MAP ROM to 1200, BB2 Update ROM is the "Amiga ROM Update" and now we are using "NOROMUPDATE"):
- Again, 2 message+MCW and then black screen.
- I then copy the "old" ROM UPDATE file to the "AMIGA ROM UPDATE" just in case for some insane reason that would change anything. My understanding is that NOROMUPDATE will not even bother seeking the file: but, simply put: i have no idea! I do that, on and off:
- Again, 2 message+MCW and then black screen.
- I decide to put BB2 ROM UPDATE file back to "AMIGA ROM UPDATE" and I decide to use SETPATCH SKIPROMUPDATES "scsi.device" again.

so we are at a point where this is basically BB2 again as installed but with SKIPROMUPDATES on scsi. Also, the ACA 500+ menu continues to be all disabled but for A1200 Map ROM (F2).

I looked at the explanation of MAP ROM and found that it must be on with no accel card. Actually, at this point I will turn it off. Now, the menu is the one you see in the screenshot below (http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?...1&d=1610239989)

Btw AUTOCONFIG: I disable it in the ACA menu because i want to use which ever version is in the ROM.

At this point, someone is probably screaming at me for many reasons. Not least because i have not yet mentioned 60 libs. Okay, Throughout everything I have said so far I have only the 68060.library in my Libs folder which is 161,988 bytes (http://phase5.a1k.org/files/040_060Libs.lha).

To see if anything changes, I rename 68000.library to 9.library, off and on:
- 2 message, MCW and black screen. Does this imply that this is happening before the 68k lib has even loaded? Normally I would expect a reboot because of setpatch, but that does not even happen here. Anyway, rename it back to 68000.library.

trying something different:
- This time, with these settings (http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?...1&d=1610239989), I get the MCW then the setpatch screen (http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?...1&d=1610239989) but on the reboot caused by setpatch i get a flashing yellow screen and blinking caps locks.
- Now, I change the Amiga ROM Update to be the original one (.old ROM). So same situation as bullet point above, but with the older ROM file. Off and on:
- This time, with the older AMIGA ROM update . there is now no yellow screen and get a "Checksum failure filesystem, fs 45.9 (3.9.2000) and everything hangs.
- Last thing I try is to change startup-sequence back to just "setpatch QUIET". This time I get a "recoverable alert", perhaps this is basically just making what happens when QUIET is disabled.

So:

I am super confused and super uninformed. I am wondering if someone can help me achieve my goal as well as answer help me on the following conflict(s) I have:

- Should I use all available options from the ACA 500 + as well as the blizzard? Things like mapping ROM can be done by blizkick - so which one do I use and what happens if I try and use both?
- What about AUTOCONFIG? Should I use the ACA one or use the one built in to the ROMs? Do the new update ROMs even come with a newer version of AUTOCONFIG and does it matter?
- If I use MMULIB from ACA 500 + does it then make it pointless to install 68 libs at all. I think that these are built in to the ACA 500+ they are basically MMULIB from Aminet, but again, this seems hidden. I like to try and set things up on my own and know what is going on. If these are the version from Aminet, what happens if a new version comes out - hence I would prefer to switch that off in ACA 500 + menu.
It is using the options of the ACA vs hacking startup-sequence files that worries me because I can imagine there would be a lot of conflicts when using ACA + blizzard utils/blizzkick as well as a suite of other software packages.

Lastly, I do have a setup that does work (i.e. a different SD card): 3.9 BB4, but with Amiga ROM UPDATE set back to the old version and the startup-sequence file untouched. The following ACA settings (http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?...1&d=1610242010). Again though,
- if I disable everything from the ACA menu then I just get the black screen.
- if I disable everything from the ACA menu then and just turn VIRTUAL AUTOCONFIG to AUTOMATIC I get a yellow screen and flashing LEDs
- if I disable everything from the ACA menu then and just turn on MAP ROM to A1200 card then I get a yellow screen and flashing LEDs
- if I disable everything from the ACA menu then and just turn on MAP ROM to ACA 500 then it boots.

In fact, that seems to be the solution in both of my cases, the SD card with BB2 actually boots if I use map rom to ACA 500+.

TL,DR:
-How to get BB2's ROM UPDATE to work on my system (which for my a 1200 was generally to simply disable the scsi.device), and,
-Should i disable most of the things from ACA 500+ because I want to use things like blizzkick. And, does it conflict with modules from boing bags?

[d4rk3lf]

Interesting.
I don't have answers but will be watching this thread with interest.

I hope you make your goals, and I hope you record that beast of machine running Workbench 3.9 + some 3D games.

[cugar124]

Hi bud had the same issues its in my time been bb2. I always apply all 4 bb's and i do 2 and 3 back to back before doing a reset. It worked for me. Hope that helps but yes the zorro may be a problem too.

[lilwshu]

Not sure if there has been an update, and I’m sure you have checked this, but the last time I heard the ACA500 doesn’t work with the Checkmate Zorro extender board (there is still something on the website about it).

[rjd324]

Thanks so far. Ill try the suggestion and what I will also do today is see whether all the same occurs when:
- I swap the bliz 1260 for the ACA 1233n
- use the blizz 1260 without the RTG card
- use the aca1233n with without the RTG card

Funny, I originally wanted my checkmate to be a nice and simple 1.3 system sped up with the Aca 500 and 1233n and mainly the 030 was because compilations were very quick. Now it has turned INTO a 3.9 BB4 rtg 060 system that I want to run ports of duke nukem on!

This is a bad addiction. But warranted because I bought an a1000 that I want to keep as stock as possible. Yet, I want my a1200 mediator system to be the one that does it all. And I just bought a vampire for my a600 tower system.

Someone knows a therapist?

[rjd324]

Okay, so further testing:

... No rtg, rom bb2, setpatch no scsi. And all options disabled except aca rom map.

Boot, setpatch, black screen.

[at this point I remove the 6860k lib since I am not using the 68060 card anymore.

... No rtg, aca 1233n. All disable except aca map rom. No 68k lib.
Bb2 rom and setpatch scsi disable

Boot, setpatch, black screen

... Same as before but f1 at menu

Boot, setpatch, black screen

... Same as before but just call setpatch. Again, press f1 at menu

Boot, setpatch, black screen.

... ACA1233n only. Rom bb2 set patch all. Everything off aca 500 map rom.

Boots fine. Workbench and kickstart versions are correct.

... Same again with f1 at menu

Boots fine. As above.

... Do as above so this time aca 1233n but with the RTG card. Again all setting disabled except map rom aca. To remind: call full setpatch and use rom bb2.

Black screen.actually immediate black screen this time startup sequence did not run. Clarify: get the indivision screen and the Aca messages bout copying rom but then black screen and nothing.

... Try again with f1 option.

Boots fine.

Note 1: I have not mentioned on this thread yet but was also having an issue when using the bliz 060 in my checkmate: using any setup (any sd cards / wb configs) I boot into wb and the RTG (gbapi plus plus) monitor never shows. I always need to restart once and then the monitor shows. But this is not the case when I use the 1233n it just works first time.

Note 2: I also could never get nova coders ports to work on my bliz 060 version. But with the aca1233n it works fine but of course too slow. But adoom rtg worked fine in the bliz 060 set up.

... Conclusion: something about the blizzard 060 is causing the issue. There is some conflict. But I am far from being qualified (as proved by my trail and error efforts) from figuring out what that problem is.

I think a fair compromise is to use this as an 030 rtg system which is still a great ecs machine! And leave the higher stuff for the mediator 1200/600 vamp. So, it is no problem to run BB4 with the ROM 2 updates and an RTG card with the 030/RTG card.

For sure: first World, spoilt brat problems. But maybe this will be useful for someone else. And I would encourage anyone / gurus to contribute to why I am having the issues with the 060.

Regards.

Edit: I'll have a look at my blizzards map rom jumper and probably play around some more with setting up bliz kick soon.

[rjd324]

The response from Jens about this is that no support can be given for Blizzard cards, which I accept.

For now I am just using the 1233, but I will probably update this page when I test with the Blizzard 1260 again. Personally, I could never get my Apollo 1240 to get past the ACA boot menu, yet people have reported success with the Apollo 1260 in the ACA 500+! I find it hard to believe that it is just the silicon lottery, but, perhaps it really is! I am waiting for a voltage regulator for the Apollo 1240 which I have just installed a socket into ready to upgrade to a revision 6 68060, so I then try to see if an Apollo 1260 works in the ACA 500+.

I am also aware that MikesRetoTech (mjnurney) has a massive thread about this with contributions/developments to 60 libs by Toni.

It seems that I was having some sort of library issues if anything, since I know that the hardware is fine. For example, I can run Jungle Strike 2Mb version on my ACA 500+/1233n WB 3.9 (bb2/4) system, yet, when I have the 1260 installed it does not work. The libs I used were directly from Phase 5.

I will report back, but this is still possibly a useful thread for anyone else trying this.

[Toni Wilen]

It seems I missed this topic. Technical reason: Blizzard 1240/60 (perhaps others too) assume connected Amiga is 32-bit. 68040+ CPUs, if cache is enabled, will use 32-bit burst accesses to read instruction opcodes. Result is almost instant crash if this is allowed to happen in 16-bit memory (=connected to A500).

ACA500plus firmware includes a hack that disables caching to all memory inside first 16M of address space by patching KS ROM that sets CPU TTR registers. This can't work if something else adjusts TTRs. (In case of OS3.5+ it is done by setpatch loaded ROM replacement code). It probably can be done by manually modifying on disk ROM files but that is someone else's problem.. This hack was only made to enable Blizzard 68040/060 to boot because they are relatively common boards (I because I have one and wanted it to work!) and they also support hardware disable.

Use of Zorro extenders is very unsupported use case, combination of hardware that was never meant to work together. I have one very simple Z2 extender, some hardware combinations work (accelerator + Z2 board), some don't, some accelerators only work with the extender removed. It depends on hardware design quality, power supply quality and more.. And some combinations simply can't work. ACA500plus hardware and firmware is designed to handle this (accelerator autoconfig + ACA500plus autoconfig + Z2 autoconfig existing at the same which is not normally possible) but it can't fix hardware incompatibilites.

You might get some useful info by enabling serial logging (F8 menu) and connecting Amiga serial port to PC (for example using USB adapter).

[rjd324]

Toni, thank you for the response. I will report back within the next few months (could be tonight, could be in 6 months!). I have all the equipment to get some serial logging. I will do the following:
- turn the Amiga on
- wait for full boot into system (which includes the SetPatch reboot)
- record the results from serial when I get into the workbench screen

I would like to see what the differences are at that point because, as I said in my earlier post, I need to do a manual soft-reboot after I get into the WB screen in order to get the GBAPI gfx card to work when the bliz 60 is installed.

[AMike]

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread because it's pretty long. I used a 1260 in the past with my ACA500 (nonPlus) but for that is a patched 68060 lib required. I think Toni Wilen made this patch - I'll check tomorrow my files.

[rjd324]

So, I installed 3.1.4 to eliminate any issues with 3.9/BB.

Actually, the same thing happens; It literally seems like a race condition where sometimes I am able to use the GBAPI video monitor, and other times it just does not recognise it.

AMike / Toni, wondering if I can grab a copy of that modified 68060 lib. I am in no dying need of using a 1260 in this system, but it would be nice to see if it was possible + consistent.