external (case?) differences between ECS and OCS?

gizmomelb · 06 February 2006, 04:59

Hi all,

a mate of mine was asking me about Amigas as he's also got the bug and has spotted a few at garage sales etc. and he was asking me about the Amiga 500 and how to tell the difference between an ECS and an OCS chipset (by looking at the case, serial number or whatever).

Does anyone know if there is any way to take an educated guess at the chipset in an Amiga 500?

I'm not aware of any way unless the machine is powered up and you run something like Sysinfo, or you can open the case and see if there's an 8373 Denise in there or not.

Thanks,
Gizmomelb

mr_a500 · 06 February 2006, 06:46

I don't know if this is true, but I've heard that the Amiga 500+ (the one that is ECS) has a white case like the Amiga 1200 rather than cream coloured like the Amiga 500. (but with the yellowing these days, who can tell?

)

The best way to tell is to look at the sticker on the bottom. My sticker says "Amiga 500" and I'm sure the Amiga 500+ will say "Amiga 500+" (...just a logical guess

)

(my Amiga 500 is ECS because I replaced the chips

)

Galaxy · 06 February 2006, 08:58

Weren't some of the newer A500s ECS? My 1990 A500 has a fat agnus in it. LEDs are green and orange (as opposed to the red and green on older A500s, but you can only tell when it is turned on.

T_hairy_bootson · 06 February 2006, 09:39

An A500+ is true ECS, a Rev6 A500 can only be made ECS if it has the fat Agnus, Chip memory upgraded to one meg and the Denise replaced.

An A500+ should be recognisable by the badge on it that actually says A500+.

alexh · 06 February 2006, 10:25

It's not 100% accurate, more a true rule of thumb, but Amiga's with a RED power LED are generally OCS Amiga's.

Of course if the Amiga says A500+ then it will be ECS

In-between is a bit grey.

Interceptor · 06 February 2006, 17:41

i've found so far, that it's not the colour of the LEDs but how they operate.

if the LED is on when the filter is active, and completely off when it isnt, they amiga has been fitted with the original agnus, if the LED is a Bright/Dim type instead, i.e it never goes off while the power is on, then it's had the fatter agnus fitted.

not saying that's how it is, but that's how i've seen it so far, i think i used some game called manchester united europe to test that out, as it told you what you had when it started.....it may have been john barnes football, but i'm confident it was the man u one.

that said, all ones with Red power led are the off/on type.

but does a just a "fatter" agnus class as ECS? i thought ECS was the combination of super agnus, and super denise, present on the A500+. you dont get EHB mode or super hi-res from a machine with just a fetter agnus for example.

they only amiga 500 i've not played with and had a look at such things, is the very last A500, with the small enter key ala A500+. i knew someone that had one, they got it after the A500+ was released, so my guess is he got one from the last A500 runs.

alexh · 06 February 2006, 18:29

ECS is more that just Agnus.

My first Amiga in 1990 (Flight of Fantasy pack) was 1/2 ECS with just the fatter agnus giving 1Mbyte chip ram.

I remember that Lionheart had to run a program called fakefast which used to reboot once when loading from cold boot because it had no fast ram and that some 1meg demo's didnt work cos it had no fastram.

alexh · 06 February 2006, 18:30

I would recommend getting an A500+

HOWEVER

Remember that they have batteries on the motherboard that leak!

mr_a500 · 06 February 2006, 19:14

I ran my A500 for 6 months with a 2MB Agnus and the OCS Denise. When I got the ECS Denise, the only differences I noticed were the new Super High Res and Super High Res Laced screenmodes (totally useless!) and border blank programs now worked. Earlier I had spent hours trying to get the damn border blank to work and it turned out that I needed the ECS Denise.

Galaxy · 07 February 2006, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

I would recommend getting an A500+

HOWEVER

Remember that they have batteries on the motherboard that leak!

Depends what you want the Amiga for - if it is for playing games an A500 will be more compatible with the bulk of software, although degraders usually do the trick.

gizmomelb · 07 February 2006, 02:26

thanks to all for your help and comments, I'll pass this on to my mate and hopefully he'll strike it lucky with an ECS A500.

I can recall I had an A500 with an ECS DENISE, and I had a switch wired up so I could select between 0.5 and 1MEG CHIPRAM, so if he finds an ECS A500 we'll probably try to find the wiring diagram and do the same again.

alexh · 07 February 2006, 11:44

Erm, wiring a switch to Denise cannot select chip ram, it's AGNUS.

gizmomelb · 07 February 2006, 12:32

phew! thanks for that.. might've gotten ugly if I'd wired up the wrong chip

alexh · 07 February 2006, 13:32

Search for "AGNUS a19" that will get you the info you require.

Overdoc · 07 February 2006, 23:17

Well, ECS A-500s were the last that were made (after the A-500+ came out), and there are 2 things to look without having to power up the machine:

1) The logo on the right side of the case should look like the one of an A-500+, but simply saying 'Commodore A-500'. The older A-500s only have a C= symbol there.

2) the monochrome video-out port on the backside (left) on the Amiga-500. The later Amigas with logo like told in 1) have this chinch port yellow, while the older ones have it white or black.

If both are true then there ia a very good chance that this Amiga-500 has the Rev. 8A board and a ECS Agnus (8375) installed. However, it could still have the OCS Denise (8362)...

mr_a500 · 08 February 2006, 03:56

Quote:

2) the monochrome video-out port on the backside (left) on the Amiga-500. The later Amigas with logo like told in 1) have this chinch port yellow, while the older ones have it white or black.

Both my A500s - a 1987 Rev.3 and a 1989 Rev. 5A - have red monochrome ports. The picture on the box shows white though.

Overdoc · 08 February 2006, 15:39

Yes, some were red, white or even black, but if it is yellow then it is for sure a newer board (most likely Rev. 8A, but also some Rev. 6A had them yellow)

Parsec · 10 February 2006, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overdoc

1) The logo on the right side of the case should look like the one of an A-500+, but simply saying 'Commodore A-500'. The older A-500s only have a C= symbol there.

I'm glad somebody said that because I thought the badges were different too.

_ThEcRoW · 10 February 2006, 15:50

My Rev 6a a500 has the c= badge and it's ECS.
It also has the empty sockets to upgrade the chip to 1mb, but this would quit some compatibility, so i put a 512 expansion ram instead. It works like a charm, and with 512/512 every game releasede will work, as opposite with 1mb chip when you will encounter incompatibilities.
Also still looking for a viper accelerator card, if anyone had one left.......

06 February 2006, 04:59	#1
gizmomelb Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: melbourne Age: 55 Posts: 541	external (case?) differences between ECS and OCS? Hi all, a mate of mine was asking me about Amigas as he's also got the bug and has spotted a few at garage sales etc. and he was asking me about the Amiga 500 and how to tell the difference between an ECS and an OCS chipset (by looking at the case, serial number or whatever). Does anyone know if there is any way to take an educated guess at the chipset in an Amiga 500? I'm not aware of any way unless the machine is powered up and you run something like Sysinfo, or you can open the case and see if there's an 8373 Denise in there or not. Thanks, Gizmomelb

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06 February 2006, 06:46	#2
mr_a500 Amiga-based Cyborg Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 808	I don't know if this is true, but I've heard that the Amiga 500+ (the one that is ECS) has a white case like the Amiga 1200 rather than cream coloured like the Amiga 500. (but with the yellowing these days, who can tell? ) The best way to tell is to look at the sticker on the bottom. My sticker says "Amiga 500" and I'm sure the Amiga 500+ will say "Amiga 500+" (...just a logical guess ) (my Amiga 500 is ECS because I replaced the chips )

06 February 2006, 08:58	#3
Galaxy Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canberra, Australia Age: 46 Posts: 1,417	Weren't some of the newer A500s ECS? My 1990 A500 has a fat agnus in it. LEDs are green and orange (as opposed to the red and green on older A500s, but you can only tell when it is turned on.

06 February 2006, 09:39	#4
T_hairy_bootson Workbitch 1.3 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 47 Posts: 2,084	An A500+ is true ECS, a Rev6 A500 can only be made ECS if it has the fat Agnus, Chip memory upgraded to one meg and the Denise replaced. An A500+ should be recognisable by the badge on it that actually says A500+.

06 February 2006, 10:25	#5
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,472	It's not 100% accurate, more a true rule of thumb, but Amiga's with a RED power LED are generally OCS Amiga's. Of course if the Amiga says A500+ then it will be ECS In-between is a bit grey.

06 February 2006, 17:41	#6
Interceptor Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Essex, UK Posts: 414	i've found so far, that it's not the colour of the LEDs but how they operate. if the LED is on when the filter is active, and completely off when it isnt, they amiga has been fitted with the original agnus, if the LED is a Bright/Dim type instead, i.e it never goes off while the power is on, then it's had the fatter agnus fitted. not saying that's how it is, but that's how i've seen it so far, i think i used some game called manchester united europe to test that out, as it told you what you had when it started.....it may have been john barnes football, but i'm confident it was the man u one. that said, all ones with Red power led are the off/on type. but does a just a "fatter" agnus class as ECS? i thought ECS was the combination of super agnus, and super denise, present on the A500+. you dont get EHB mode or super hi-res from a machine with just a fetter agnus for example. they only amiga 500 i've not played with and had a look at such things, is the very last A500, with the small enter key ala A500+. i knew someone that had one, they got it after the A500+ was released, so my guess is he got one from the last A500 runs.

06 February 2006, 18:29	#7
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,472	ECS is more that just Agnus. My first Amiga in 1990 (Flight of Fantasy pack) was 1/2 ECS with just the fatter agnus giving 1Mbyte chip ram. I remember that Lionheart had to run a program called fakefast which used to reboot once when loading from cold boot because it had no fast ram and that some 1meg demo's didnt work cos it had no fastram.

06 February 2006, 18:30	#8
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,472	I would recommend getting an A500+ HOWEVER Remember that they have batteries on the motherboard that leak!

06 February 2006, 19:14	#9
mr_a500 Amiga-based Cyborg Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 808	I ran my A500 for 6 months with a 2MB Agnus and the OCS Denise. When I got the ECS Denise, the only differences I noticed were the new Super High Res and Super High Res Laced screenmodes (totally useless!) and border blank programs now worked. Earlier I had spent hours trying to get the damn border blank to work and it turned out that I needed the ECS Denise.

07 February 2006, 02:26	#11
gizmomelb Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: melbourne Age: 55 Posts: 541	thanks to all for your help and comments, I'll pass this on to my mate and hopefully he'll strike it lucky with an ECS A500. I can recall I had an A500 with an ECS DENISE, and I had a switch wired up so I could select between 0.5 and 1MEG CHIPRAM, so if he finds an ECS A500 we'll probably try to find the wiring diagram and do the same again.

07 February 2006, 11:44	#12
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,472	Erm, wiring a switch to Denise cannot select chip ram, it's AGNUS.

07 February 2006, 12:32	#13
gizmomelb Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: melbourne Age: 55 Posts: 541	phew! thanks for that.. might've gotten ugly if I'd wired up the wrong chip

07 February 2006, 13:32	#14
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,472	Search for "AGNUS a19" that will get you the info you require.

07 February 2006, 23:17	#15
Overdoc Commodore Collector Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austria Age: 53 Posts: 944	Well, ECS A-500s were the last that were made (after the A-500+ came out), and there are 2 things to look without having to power up the machine: 1) The logo on the right side of the case should look like the one of an A-500+, but simply saying 'Commodore A-500'. The older A-500s only have a C= symbol there. 2) the monochrome video-out port on the backside (left) on the Amiga-500. The later Amigas with logo like told in 1) have this chinch port yellow, while the older ones have it white or black. If both are true then there ia a very good chance that this Amiga-500 has the Rev. 8A board and a ECS Agnus (8375) installed. However, it could still have the OCS Denise (8362)...

08 February 2006, 15:39	#17
Overdoc Commodore Collector Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austria Age: 53 Posts: 944	Yes, some were red, white or even black, but if it is yellow then it is for sure a newer board (most likely Rev. 8A, but also some Rev. 6A had them yellow)

10 February 2006, 15:50	#19
_ThEcRoW Amiga NetRunner Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Spain Age: 45 Posts: 942	My Rev 6a a500 has the c= badge and it's ECS. It also has the empty sockets to upgrade the chip to 1mb, but this would quit some compatibility, so i put a 512 expansion ram instead. It works like a charm, and with 512/512 every game releasede will work, as opposite with 1mb chip when you will encounter incompatibilities. Also still looking for a viper accelerator card, if anyone had one left.......

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