Is it possible to softkick a CD32 into 1.3 and boot from CD?

fisken uno · 07 February 2007, 21:46

Righty, since I got my wonderful CD32 I have been working on two small projects for fun.

One is the "legal WHDload collection", using the new WHDloadCD32 proggy, that everyone else seems to be doing as well. It's not coming along very well; Having probs with WHDload and OS swaps - in some cases rendering games quite unplayable

It really is hell saving as much of those 2 MBs of Chip RAM as possible for preload within WHDload...

But THAT's not what THIS thread is about

This is about the OTHER project which is a CD32 bootable adventure game collection. The idea came up when I bumped into a few unofficially created isos of Sierra/Dynamix games by some dude called DaNi (is he a member here?). I found it a gross waste of CD-R's to burn these games a few MB each on a CD per game so I decided to make a little collection that's accessed through a Workbench 1.3 environment - optionally loading the JoyMouse utility at startup for those not willing (or able) to connect a mouse to their CD32's.

I know that many Sierra games will require a keyboard as well, and you won't be able to save your position unless you have an expansion such as the SX-1 (I hardly think you'll be able to save manually to the memory intended to store highscores??) - but what the hey! I remember when I first ran Zak256 on the FM Towns Emu (UNZ) and it didn't support saving. I finished it in one go! lol. Anyways.

Here are two screenshots:

^ Real fancy ANSI work there, don't you think lol

j/k ^

^ Yes, I did create those icons myself and no I didn't paint them pixel by pixel

^

There is one problem though and we all ought to know it by now... Kick 3.x doesn't like games (or vice versa). While some games work well - others have more or less unpredictable performance and weird behaviour. While using WB 1.3 did fix probs with some games it didn't fix 'em all. So I was thinking of the possibility of softkicking and tried Relokick, Skick, Tude, Degrader and a few others but it won't work... It does indeed boot with Kick1.3 (the famous hand screen does appear) but I cannot get it to boot from the CD - which may not be very surprising since I hardly think it'd be possible to connect a CD-ROM drive to an A500 (although the CDTV used kickstart 1.3 along with an extended ROM which probably contained the info needed to boot CD's).

So the question is: Is it possible to boot a CD in kickstart 1.3 on a CD32 without DF0:? Would it be possible to boot from a recoverable RAM drive containing necessary files to access the CD? I'm really open for ANY solution (except expanding the hardware

). To me it seems like a tough nut to crack - but perhaps you Amiga gurus out there have ideas as to how it could be done?

Jope · 08 February 2007, 07:20

A recoverable ram drive is probably the way to go.

Unfortunately the cd32's cd.device et al most likely won't work with 1.3

T_hairy_bootson · 08 February 2007, 08:15

This compilation would be nice on a cdtv though. CDTV has an external drive port for saves too and comes with kick1.3.

I would be interested in having a look some time. I am working on my own CDTV compilation containing old one filed games from compilation disks. Progress on this has stalled atm.

Dizzy · 08 February 2007, 08:47

nice project fisken

But I'm sorry I really dont see the point in making a adventure disc for cd32, when you can't save....Adventure game is best palyed on a computer with a keyboard and mouse

I do own some scummdisc for my DC, and I have both a mouse and keyboard for the dc, but I still prefer playing them on a real pc or amiga

fisken uno · 08 February 2007, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

Unfortunately the cd32's cd.device et al most likely won't work with 1.3

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of

Would be interesting to hear what TheBoss has to say, because I know I read somewhere that he's using relokick for his CD32... Not sure if he's somehow got a floppydrive wired up to it though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

This compilation would be nice on a cdtv though. CDTV has an external drive port for saves too and comes with kick1.3.

I would be interested in having a look some time. I am working on my own CDTV compilation containing old one filed games from compilation disks. Progress on this has stalled atm.

It will be interesting to check how it works with WinUAE's CDTV emulation in the upcoming version which is supposed to have quite some improvements in that department. If I can't make it fully compatible with the CD32, perhaps I can make it fully compatible with the CDTV

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dizzy

nice project fisken

But I'm sorry I really dont see the point in making a adventure disc for cd32, when you can't save....Adventure game is best palyed on a computer with a keyboard and mouse

Well, I've finished many of these games several times on the PC already. So for me it's mainly because I love the feel of these games. And - believe it or not - I love the feel of Workbench 1.3 too

Dizzy · 08 February 2007, 14:26

Guess you should try playing those old sierra game on a cga pc with only 8 colours and 5 1/4" discdrive

I remember playing Police Quest on my old IBM, I couldn't see when the traficlight was red or green, and controlling the car with the keyboard wasn't easy

fisken uno · 08 February 2007, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dizzy

Guess you should try playing those old sierra game on a cga pc with only 8 colours and 5 1/4" discdrive

Oh yes I already did that

Although I first saw Sierra's games on my stepdad's miggy, my first very OWN computer was an 8086 PC with CGA screen. It didn't even have mouse support, and came with MS-DOS v2 or something. A real relic it was, but my father gave it to me

fisken uno · 09 February 2007, 02:18

Bah, I'm running out of ideas here... I wish the new WinUAE would come out soon and that it's got decent (or at least slightly useful) CD-ROM support... I think I'd better target the CDTV with this compilation instead - the amount of CD32 compatibility that comes with it will be a slight bonus. Because I cannot seem to find any usable way of booting the CD32 drive with a softkicked kickstart 1.3... When I try it in WinUAE it seems to be the floppy drive (or absence of floppy drive) stalling it really. But there are probably more obstacles along the way. I'll be on the lookout for an A500 and/or a CDTV (and WinUAE of course) for my adventuring needs...

However, I did solve one incompatibility problem along the way! I installed Pirates (yes, the original - in my opinion way superior to the CD32 version!) and it crashed every time the swordfight was about to begin. I was using the Quartex version that bypasses the protection codes... Anywho, I also tried the Tristar version but it was definitely a no-go (wouldn't even start - software error debug thingy) so I tried it with an ORIGINAL UNcracked image and lo and behold it worked! This does not apply to the old Lucasfilm games though because they are indeed already uncracked (cracked version of Indy3 wouldn't work in WinUAE but unracked did - Neither works on the real CD32).

Bloody hell! This wasn't supposed to be a long entry but look what I did! I messed up again

adolescent · 09 February 2007, 03:17

Are you sure the compatibility problems are Kickstart related and not because of AGA, 020, etc.?

fisken uno · 24 April 2023, 21:42

You know, I haven't given up on softkicking 1.3 and booting a disk on my CD32. Yeah, I'm crazy like that

I now have a TF330 hooked up to it with CF > IDE on TF. Is it somehow possible to boot the CF card through softkicked 1.3? I have tried and tried but can't get it to boot. Is this an impossible task, or am I just doing something wrong?

What's the point, you ask? To get it to work, obviously. And for nostalgia I suppose.

Retro1234 · 24 April 2023, 22:47

I have no idea - You can boot an A1200 with a modded kickstart to boot from HD or use a manual mountlist.

What device controls the CF on a TF330?

FOL · 25 April 2023, 10:54

There was a patch for 1.3 years ago. It added A600/A1200 scsi.device to 1.3 kickstart to allow it to boot IDE drives. If TF is using scsidevice, then it should work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fisken uno

You know, I haven't given up on softkicking 1.3 and booting a disk on my CD32. Yeah, I'm crazy like that

I now have a TF330 hooked up to it with CF > IDE on TF. Is it somehow possible to boot the CF card through softkicked 1.3? I have tried and tried but can't get it to boot. Is this an impossible task, or am I just doing something wrong?

What's the point, you ask? To get it to work, obviously. And for nostalgia I suppose.

fisken uno · 25 April 2023, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOL

There was a patch for 1.3 years ago. It added A600/A1200 scsi.device to 1.3 kickstart to allow it to boot IDE drives. If TF is using scsidevice, then it should work.

Hmm, really. Have to look for this then.

Anyway, here’s the info I found in SysInfo. Not sure if it’s relevant.

fisken uno · 26 April 2023, 23:51

UUUUGH!

I managed to patch kickstart 1.3 with 3.1 scsi.device. Checksum is correct. Works in WinUAE with IDE emulation... But when softkicking with either TUDE or Relokick I get yellow screen - in both WinUAE and on my CD32.

Anybody managed to softkick a patched kickstart1.3?? HOW!?

Retro1234 · 27 April 2023, 05:41

If the TF doesn't have it's own soft kick utility your rather stuck. You'd probably have to Softkick with Skick the standard 1.3 and then manually create a mountlist.

hooverphonique · 27 April 2023, 10:28

If TUDE/Relokick does not use MMU for softkicking, they need to "know" the ROM image and how to relocate it - this obviously doesn't work for a custom rom.

fisken uno · 27 April 2023, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooverphonique

If TUDE/Relokick does not use MMU for softkicking, they need to "know" the ROM image and how to relocate it - this obviously doesn't work for a custom rom.

I see… That’s bad news I suppose. I am obviously not gonna burn a physical 1.3 ROM and put in my CD32. So I guess I am out of options. Will have to use WHDLoad. I think I have a general WB 1.3 WHD package somewhere. Sure, the whole pack needs to be cached into RAM - but I’ve got 128MB so I think I can live with this solution.

Main reason for wanting to boot into 1.3 like this is for nostalgia.

alexh · 28 April 2023, 00:37

Have you tried CD32load? The specialised WHDload for CD32?

fisken uno · 30 April 2023, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Have you tried CD32load? The specialised WHDload for CD32?

I have, but I'm not sure what the difference to the "regular" WHDload is...? As I said, I have a TF330 card for my CD32 - so RAM is not an issue (got 128MB Fast RAM) and it also has an A600 type IDE connector. So I think I could just as well use the regular WHDload.

The point is that I'd like to avoid using WHDload if possible. I do love WHDload, it's awesome for most games in most instances, but for this particular CF card with old games installed with their original installers I wish I could softkick WB 1.3 for nostalgia purposes to play them the way I remember from back in the day (minus floppy swapping).

I realize this project seems unlikely to be possible... I managed to create a hacked 1.3 ROM that works in WinUAE, but not in TUDE, Relokick or Skick. I even tried on my Furia equipped A600 with the MapROM function through Furiatune - and my modified ROM will not work there either.

So I guess I'm out of options then...? There's no way to have 1.3 use a custom scsi.device file outside of the ROM, right? Preferrably without boot disk, as the CD32 obviously does not have a floppy connector. I think someone mentioned a custom mount list, would that work? I doubt it will, as I would assume the scsi.device has to be used in order for the OS to even read the CF card in the first place, or am I wrong about this?

Retro1234 · 30 April 2023, 14:48

It should work with a Mountlist iirc use giggle disk? To create the Mountlist. Obviously you need a boot disk with SCSI.device in Devs etc.

Mikeywikey mentioned making new RTB and PAT files for SKick, no idea how far he got.

07 February 2007, 21:46	#1
fisken uno Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sweden Age: 44 Posts: 716	Is it possible to softkick a CD32 into 1.3 and boot from CD? Righty, since I got my wonderful CD32 I have been working on two small projects for fun. One is the "legal WHDload collection", using the new WHDloadCD32 proggy, that everyone else seems to be doing as well. It's not coming along very well; Having probs with WHDload and OS swaps - in some cases rendering games quite unplayable It really is hell saving as much of those 2 MBs of Chip RAM as possible for preload within WHDload... But THAT's not what THIS thread is about This is about the OTHER project which is a CD32 bootable adventure game collection. The idea came up when I bumped into a few unofficially created isos of Sierra/Dynamix games by some dude called DaNi (is he a member here?). I found it a gross waste of CD-R's to burn these games a few MB each on a CD per game so I decided to make a little collection that's accessed through a Workbench 1.3 environment - optionally loading the JoyMouse utility at startup for those not willing (or able) to connect a mouse to their CD32's. I know that many Sierra games will require a keyboard as well, and you won't be able to save your position unless you have an expansion such as the SX-1 (I hardly think you'll be able to save manually to the memory intended to store highscores??) - but what the hey! I remember when I first ran Zak256 on the FM Towns Emu (UNZ) and it didn't support saving. I finished it in one go! lol. Anyways. Here are two screenshots: ^ Real fancy ANSI work there, don't you think lol j/k ^ ^ Yes, I did create those icons myself and no I didn't paint them pixel by pixel ^ There is one problem though and we all ought to know it by now... Kick 3.x doesn't like games (or vice versa). While some games work well - others have more or less unpredictable performance and weird behaviour. While using WB 1.3 did fix probs with some games it didn't fix 'em all. So I was thinking of the possibility of softkicking and tried Relokick, Skick, Tude, Degrader and a few others but it won't work... It does indeed boot with Kick1.3 (the famous hand screen does appear) but I cannot get it to boot from the CD - which may not be very surprising since I hardly think it'd be possible to connect a CD-ROM drive to an A500 (although the CDTV used kickstart 1.3 along with an extended ROM which probably contained the info needed to boot CD's). So the question is: Is it possible to boot a CD in kickstart 1.3 on a CD32 without DF0:? Would it be possible to boot from a recoverable RAM drive containing necessary files to access the CD? I'm really open for ANY solution (except expanding the hardware ). To me it seems like a tough nut to crack - but perhaps you Amiga gurus out there have ideas as to how it could be done? Last edited by fisken uno; 07 February 2007 at 21:52.

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08 February 2007, 07:20	#2
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,910	A recoverable ram drive is probably the way to go. Unfortunately the cd32's cd.device et al most likely won't work with 1.3

08 February 2007, 08:15	#3
T_hairy_bootson Workbitch 1.3 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 47 Posts: 2,084	This compilation would be nice on a cdtv though. CDTV has an external drive port for saves too and comes with kick1.3. I would be interested in having a look some time. I am working on my own CDTV compilation containing old one filed games from compilation disks. Progress on this has stalled atm.

08 February 2007, 08:47	#4
Dizzy Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 3,395	nice project fisken But I'm sorry I really dont see the point in making a adventure disc for cd32, when you can't save....Adventure game is best palyed on a computer with a keyboard and mouse I do own some scummdisc for my DC, and I have both a mouse and keyboard for the dc, but I still prefer playing them on a real pc or amiga

08 February 2007, 14:26	#6
Dizzy Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 3,395	Guess you should try playing those old sierra game on a cga pc with only 8 colours and 5 1/4" discdrive I remember playing Police Quest on my old IBM, I couldn't see when the traficlight was red or green, and controlling the car with the keyboard wasn't easy

09 February 2007, 02:18	#8
fisken uno Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sweden Age: 44 Posts: 716	Bah, I'm running out of ideas here... I wish the new WinUAE would come out soon and that it's got decent (or at least slightly useful) CD-ROM support... I think I'd better target the CDTV with this compilation instead - the amount of CD32 compatibility that comes with it will be a slight bonus. Because I cannot seem to find any usable way of booting the CD32 drive with a softkicked kickstart 1.3... When I try it in WinUAE it seems to be the floppy drive (or absence of floppy drive) stalling it really. But there are probably more obstacles along the way. I'll be on the lookout for an A500 and/or a CDTV (and WinUAE of course) for my adventuring needs... However, I did solve one incompatibility problem along the way! I installed Pirates (yes, the original - in my opinion way superior to the CD32 version!) and it crashed every time the swordfight was about to begin. I was using the Quartex version that bypasses the protection codes... Anywho, I also tried the Tristar version but it was definitely a no-go (wouldn't even start - software error debug thingy) so I tried it with an ORIGINAL UNcracked image and lo and behold it worked! This does not apply to the old Lucasfilm games though because they are indeed already uncracked (cracked version of Indy3 wouldn't work in WinUAE but unracked did - Neither works on the real CD32). Bloody hell! This wasn't supposed to be a long entry but look what I did! I messed up again

09 February 2007, 03:17	#9
adolescent Powered by Motorola Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Age: 52 Posts: 1,065	Are you sure the compatibility problems are Kickstart related and not because of AGA, 020, etc.?

24 April 2023, 21:42	#10
fisken uno Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sweden Age: 44 Posts: 716	You know, I haven't given up on softkicking 1.3 and booting a disk on my CD32. Yeah, I'm crazy like that I now have a TF330 hooked up to it with CF > IDE on TF. Is it somehow possible to boot the CF card through softkicked 1.3? I have tried and tried but can't get it to boot. Is this an impossible task, or am I just doing something wrong? What's the point, you ask? To get it to work, obviously. And for nostalgia I suppose.

24 April 2023, 22:47	#11
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,812	I have no idea - You can boot an A1200 with a modded kickstart to boot from HD or use a manual mountlist. What device controls the CF on a TF330?

26 April 2023, 23:51	#14
fisken uno Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sweden Age: 44 Posts: 716	UUUUGH! I managed to patch kickstart 1.3 with 3.1 scsi.device. Checksum is correct. Works in WinUAE with IDE emulation... But when softkicking with either TUDE or Relokick I get yellow screen - in both WinUAE and on my CD32. Anybody managed to softkick a patched kickstart1.3?? HOW!?

27 April 2023, 05:41	#15
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,812	If the TF doesn't have it's own soft kick utility your rather stuck. You'd probably have to Softkick with Skick the standard 1.3 and then manually create a mountlist.

27 April 2023, 10:28	#16
hooverphonique ex. demoscener "Bigmama" Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Fyn / Denmark Posts: 1,638	If TUDE/Relokick does not use MMU for softkicking, they need to "know" the ROM image and how to relocate it - this obviously doesn't work for a custom rom.

28 April 2023, 00:37	#18
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,461	Have you tried CD32load? The specialised WHDload for CD32?

30 April 2023, 14:48	#20
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,812	It should work with a Mountlist iirc use giggle disk? To create the Mountlist. Obviously you need a boot disk with SCSI.device in Devs etc. Mikeywikey mentioned making new RTB and PAT files for SKick, no idea how far he got.

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