SCSI CD-ROM not recognized

[brufnus]

Hi folks!

I recently upgraded my CDTV with a SCSI controller, an SCA hard drive, and a 40x SCSI CD-ROM drive, as well as my KS and extended ROMS to 3.2/2.30, some FAST RAM on the diagnostics port, and AmigaOS 3.2.

However, the SCSI CD-ROM drive is not recognized at bootup, only after a soft reset is it available. I've tried different ID's, changing the startup sequence, etc... but I haven't been able to resolve this annoying problem.

Do you have any suggestions as to why it does this?

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by brufnus

Hi folks!

I recently upgraded my CDTV with a SCSI controller, an SCA hard drive, and a 40x SCSI CD-ROM drive, as well as my KS and extended ROMS to 3.2/2.30, some FAST RAM on the diagnostics port, and AmigaOS 3.2.

However, the SCSI CD-ROM drive is not recognized at bootup, only after a soft reset is it available. I've tried different ID's, changing the startup sequence, etc... but I haven't been able to resolve this annoying problem.

Do you have any suggestions as to why it does this?

Have had similar with my A1200 with Blizzard 1260 and 1230 MKIV SCSI add-on. One thing to check is the termination and timeouts. Does the SCSI card have any means of a early startup menu?

[brufnus]

Yes, it does have the early startup menu. The termination should be okay, but perhaps I should double-check that one. It doesn't make it any easier that I'm using a 50-pin to SCA converter for the hard drive, of course... as you may know, these drives don't have any termination capability of their own, since this is meant to be handled by the backplane.

Anyway, I'll take a look at the termination and timeouts once more. It works flawlessly if I reboot; it's only after a power down it won't recognize it.

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by brufnus

Yes, it does have the early startup menu. The termination should be okay, but perhaps I should double-check that one. It doesn't make it any easier that I'm using a 50-pin to SCA converter for the hard drive, of course... as you may know, these drives don't have any termination capability of their own, since this is meant to be handled by the backplane.

Anyway, I'll take a look at the termination and timeouts once more. It works flawlessly if I reboot; it's only after a power down it won't recognize it.

So have you just tried the CD-ROM on its own? By using with some sort of bootable floppy to start up the CD drive?
Don’t forget the HDD should be set to ID “0” and usually the SCSI controller card will be self terminating and usually on ID “7”. So ID’s 1 to 6 should be fine for the CD Drive. When you mention termination. Are you terminating at the CD ROM drive end? How are you doing this? In-built Terminator? or a External type on the end of the cable?
My guess you’ve got a time out issue somewhere. Maybe the HDD is causing something with the chain?

[brufnus]

Admitted, I haven't set the HDD to ID 0, but rather 3 (since I had other drives attached initially to test as well as backing up my system). I'll set that to 0 as it should be and then try again. The CD-ROM drive has ID 5.
No, I haven't tried with the CD-ROM alone... unfortunately I can't boot from the CDTV drive, since it doesn't work at the moment. However, I'll try booting off a floppy disk and see how it behaves then.
Anyway, the CD-Rom drive is the last drive in the chain, and therefore terminated (internal termination). I was unsure if it provided the power needed, so I tried jumpering one of my adapters to provide term pwr, that didn't make any difference.
I do have a couple of external - active as well as passive - terminators at hand, so I could try different configurations and see if that solves the problem.
I find it weird though, that it works after a reboot - but that doesn't excluse the possibiltity that it's merely a termination issue, of course.

[brufnus]

Now the HDD is set to ID 0, but it didn't make any difference. I guess you're right about the timeout though, so I'll try fiddling some more with the termination, their place in the SCSI chain, etc. My early startup menu doesn't give me many options or clues...

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by brufnus

Now the HDD is set to ID 0, but it didn't make any difference. I guess you're right about the timeout though, so I'll try fiddling some more with the termination, their place in the SCSI chain, etc. My early startup menu doesn't give me many options or clues...

When you mention the early startup menu. Are you referring to one that you can bring up on the BIOS of the SCSI card? Or the Kickstart? If the latter, you won’t find any SCSI settings.
On some cards pressing and holding the “ESC” key on power up or reboot can bring up the SCSI card settings (If it can do this). I know the Phase 5 Blizzard 603e Plus has this. So not sure if your card has this feature.

[brufnus]

Yes, you're right... the Kickstart menu probably doesn't do much good in this aspect. Unfortunately I don't know which brand the SCSI controller is, but I'll try your suggestion with the ESC key when I get near it again.
I've had the CDTV since '93 or something, but haven't used it for many years until this summer, when I got my hands on that SCSI card and decided to upgrade it quite a bit. Much of what I learned back then is slowly coming back to me, but I still have much to learn, too.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Jpor

I know the Phase 5 Blizzard 603e Plus has this. So not sure if your card has this feature.

Only the Phase5 PPC and MK3 accelerators have this menu.

Originally Posted by brufnus

the SCSI CD-ROM drive is not recognized at bootup, only after a soft reset is it available.

As a workaround you could put a command into startup-sequence which checks if the CD drive is there and reboot if not. The only disadvantage is that you end in a reset loop if the drive really does not work.

[brufnus]

My SCSI card doesn't seem to have any menu. I've tried updating the AmiCDFS today, no difference.
Anyway, it's not a big deal; I won't be using that drive much and as long as a reboot enables it, I can live with that. I'm about to upgrade to a TF534, and I may try a clean install of both OS 3.2 and OS3.9 on another HDD, once I'm ready. Perhaps that will solve the problem. The idea about booting from floppy with only the CD-ROM drive on the SCSI bus is a good idea, too. c",)

Thanks for your suggestions, I appreciate that! B-)

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by brufnus

My SCSI card doesn't seem to have any menu. I've tried updating the AmiCDFS today, no difference.
Anyway, it's not a big deal; I won't be using that drive much and as long as a reboot enables it, I can live with that. I'm about to upgrade to a TF534, and I may try a clean install of both OS 3.2 and OS3.9 on another HDD, once I'm ready. Perhaps that will solve the problem. The idea about booting from floppy with only the CD-ROM drive on the SCSI bus is a good idea, too. c",)

Thanks for your suggestions, I appreciate that! B-)

It might be also a jumper setting on the back of the CD drive as well? Or the Drive might have some sort of issue working with other devices.
Good luck with it

[pipper]

One option might be the „last drive“ setting that HDToolBox stores in the RDB. It basically prevents the OS to look for more drives after it enumerated the RDB with „last drive“ marker.
Try starting HDToolBox. It may tell you that the drives have changed (without you actually changing anything). Let it save and exit. Reboot.

[Jope]

The last drive setting doesn't matter when you add CD-ROMs, it is used when the driver scans for partitions to mount at boot up. You can access and SCSI ID later after the machine is booted.

[brufnus]

Yes, well I've checked all settings I could think of, even updated the RDB via HDToolBox, etc. It does seem to recognize the CD-ROM drive, since it turns on the LED and spins the drive during bootup from power-off.

I read that if using Ultra Wide drives, it would be best to place any SCSI-I or -II devices at the end of the bus; thus the CD-ROM drive is at the end of the cable and terminated through it's jumper setting. It could be the drives' termination which doesn't work properly, of course... perhaps I should swap the drives and/or install a separate terminator at the end of the bus.

Today I tried installing my TF534, but as I was fully aware of, this is not so simple on a CDTV, since there's not enough clearance even with the angled relocator. So I ordered a straight relocator today; hopefully that will be more successful. I may not be able to close the lid, but I've used an external case for my HDD, CD-ROM drive and floppy drive (newer PC one with an adapter), so I'm planning on constructing a "CPU cable", so that even my TF can be relocated to that case (and allow me to secure sufficient cooling). Perhaps that will be the only computer in the world with an EXTERNAL CPU, who knows? :-D

[brufnus]

Originally Posted by thomas

Only the Phase5 PPC and MK3 accelerators have this menu.




As a workaround you could put a command into startup-sequence which checks if the CD drive is there and reboot if not. The only disadvantage is that you end in a reset loop if the drive really does not work.

That COULD be an option, yes. The situation with an eventual never ending reset loop could be dealt with by disabling the startup-sequence, if it ever came to that (or, I could boot off another HDD or floppy or whatever).

Another thing is... although these bugs, compatibility issues etc. with our old computers may be a PITA sometimes, it's also a source for fun and satisfaction if we somehow manage to solve these issues. :-D

[brufnus]

Originally Posted by Jpor

It might be also a jumper setting on the back of the CD drive as well? Or the Drive might have some sort of issue working with other devices.
Good luck with it

Thanks! :-D
Yes, it might be the drive itself, perhaps its internal termination or something. I'll try some different configurations with external active/passive terminators and see if that solves the problem. c",)

[brufnus]

Hi again, thanks to all of you for your willingness to help me with this issue. c",)

Now there's finally some progress... I intended to make a clean install of OS3.2 on an old Seagate SCSI-2 drive, so that I could remove the SCA drive temporarily.

It's actually not configured properly, since it's in between the card and the other drives, with terminator packs still onboard - but now my CD-ROM drive shows up on first boot.

So, yes, it's definitely a termination issue. So, now that I've pinpointed the reason, I can try different setups to get rid of that drive again (and it's man-in-the-middle-improper-termination, ha ha). :-D

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by brufnus

Hi again, thanks to all of you for your willingness to help me with this issue. c",)

Now there's finally some progress... I intended to make a clean install of OS3.2 on an old Seagate SCSI-2 drive, so that I could remove the SCA drive temporarily.

It's actually not configured properly, since it's in between the card and the other drives, with terminator packs still onboard - but now my CD-ROM drive shows up on first boot.

So, yes, it's definitely a termination issue. So, now that I've pinpointed the reason, I can try different setups to get rid of that drive again (and it's man-in-the-middle-improper-termination, ha ha). :-D

Glad you’ve got further with it. SCSI chains can be a challenge

[brufnus]

Originally Posted by Jpor

Glad you’ve got further with it. SCSI chains can be a challenge

Indeed! Especially since they sometimes works when terminated incorrectly but not when terminated correctly. I've had similar issues with MFM drives on my Myarc Geneve 9640. c".)
Anyway, it seems the termination on the CD-ROM drives doesn't work properly, so at least I know that now and can handle it by other means. c",)