Why did the Atari ST designers use such a CRAPPY sound chip?

[manossg]

Originally Posted by chip

Yeah, i like also CPC and Spectrum sound (they have same sound chip, isn't it ?)

Yeah, the MSX as well. Unfortunately, only the later spectrum models got the AY goodness.

[chip]

A bit off topic perhaps, but i also suggest to listen to Mega Drive and Super Nintendo games soundtrack

[khph_re]

For many people upgrading from beepers, the AY was a big step up. No, it wasn't as good as the SID. In the hands of great musicians it could produce great music.

Atari produced the ST in record time, and at a great price. Neither of these things would be possible if it was full of custom chips.

I have fond memories of my ST, it's the first machine I ever used as an actual computer, rather than a glorified console. But it it made me lust after the Amiga. Without the ST being the price it was, I would have been two years later joining the sixteen bit generation.

Still missed my SID though, so had to listen to the B.I.G demo over and over instead!

[kremiso]

Wondering if the ST soundchip was difficult to be used correctly, programming talking, despite Paula or SID.
Crude quantity talking, not many ST games had a decent sound output afterall...

[chip]

I must disagree, no general conclusions can be done IMHO, it's just a personal taste

For example for me Atari ST sound is really nice

I am not interested in comparisons to other systems and also in technical details

As usual, it is how things are used that makes the difference

[Foebane]

It IS personal taste, and to me, the AY stuff all sounds the same. It sounds tinny beyond belief, lacks punch, and I don't like the warble of the decreasing volume (I don't mean arpeggios) when instruments fade out. Even the bass effects sound feeble.

A few years ago, I was emulating Speccy demos, and while I observed some great graphical effects for such a limited platform, I noticed that despite the tunes, the music on all of the AY demos sounded exactly the same.

Funnily enough, I did have an ST before my A500, and so I grew to like some tunes on AY more than the Amiga versions I heard later, like 9 Lives and Deflektor, but sampled music modules on ST made me realise what was possible, and what the Amiga was most likely doing.

I just wish I'd chosen the Amiga over the ST, first.

[manossg]

Originally Posted by Foebane

It IS personal taste, and to me, the AY stuff all sounds the same. It sounds tinny beyond belief, lacks punch, and I don't like the warble of the decreasing volume (I don't mean arpeggios) when instruments fade out. Even the bass effects sound feeble.

https://youtu.be/u5VrqlLItco?t=21

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by manossg

https://youtu.be/u5VrqlLItco?t=21

You've just proved my point, it sounds no better and no different to all the AY stuff I've heard before, and I particularly don't like tones being used to simulate percussion, like the "bass" examples shown in the video.

[manossg]

Originally Posted by Foebane

You've just proved my point, it sounds no better and no different to all the AY stuff I've heard before, and I particularly don't like tones being used to simulate percussion, like the "bass" examples shown in the video.

No comment.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by manossg

No comment.

I guess I'll never be persuaded on such limited sound hardware. Next you'll be saying the NES sound chip is worth anything at all!

Nope, I guess I'm not interested, unless it's samples.

[chip]

NES sound chip rulez !

[manossg]

Originally Posted by Foebane

I guess I'll never be persuaded on such limited sound hardware.

Bro, you are listening with closed ears and a set mind, that's the only limited thing here.

[dreadnought]

@Foebane: Interesting logic. So, if some guy comes and says Amiga's sound is rubbish, because there certainly is some superior PC sound card out there, you'll have to agree?

[Konrad]

I know what Foebane means with limited sound hardware. But that doesn't mean that "limited sound hardware" can't create catchy tunes.
I love alot of NES songs (although never owned a NES). I also really like alot C64 songs (also, never owned a C64). So in general I do appreciate this kind of sound.

That said, technical aspects aside (what's theoretically possible or not), where I agree with Foebane is that I don't find alot of Atari-ST game music that great. Of course you can find some songs which are good, but that's IMO not the usual case. Most of the time games lack in the music department.

@manossg: The song you linked is also nothing where I would say this is a great song. Definitely ok, fits the game and system, but nothing special or outstanding.

[Keops/Equinox]

People definitely managed to get interesting sounds from the YM with time:

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[Foebane]

AY? YM?

Are we comparing the same sound chip here? I sometimes wonder if people think I'm talking about something else rather than what I'm talking about?

[drHirudo]

As a follow up to the question:
All the 8-bits which used the same chip for sound were perfectly fine having it.
Why did the Atari engineers didn't include two Yamaha sound chips in the Atari ST?

It would have been a monster sound machine (for the times) with full stereo and 12 (twelve) channels.

The Phasor sound card for Apple II computers has two similar chips, controlled by 8-bit computer
https://wiki.reactivemicro.com/Phasor

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

@Foebane: Interesting logic. So, if some guy comes and says Amiga's sound is rubbish, because there certainly is some superior PC sound card out there, you'll have to agree?

The way I see it, Paula hits the sweet spot between bleeps and blops on one end of the "music realism" scale, and actual real musical instruments on the other. I don't like either extreme for computer music, but Paula sounds a nice mixture to me.

[Keops/Equinox]

Originally Posted by Foebane

AY? YM?

Are we comparing the same sound chip here? I sometimes wonder if people think I'm talking about something else rather than what I'm talking about?

I don't know, you are the one who created that thread, yet you keep talking about the AY instead of the YM

They are VERY similar, not identical though

[rare_j]

Originally Posted by Keops/Equinox

I didn't know, you are the one who created that thread, yet you keep talking about the AY instead of the YM

They are VERY similar, not identical though

Does anyone know the actual differences in terms of capabilities between the chip in the Spectrum and that in the ST? I've looked into this before and never come up with any answers. Would be great to hear the same tune on both machines.