new amiga 500 doom like !

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by Photon

I'm passionate about this. Doom is the bare minimum requirement for a game. Move and click to shoot. And this is offered in all game engines as a template today...

I tend to agree here, but still, this is just (ours) personal taste, nothing more.
Doom have a legions of fans, and that says that ID hit the right spot.
I personally couldn't care less for Doom (or their clones), even back in the 90's.
We should definitely appreciate Doom playability, and level design, that I really consider as a work of art.
The overall gameplay logic (running around to find a keys) was never my thing, and I was always more into the rpg's and strategies.

But Dread is another thing for me.
It's simply beyond amazing what KK technically achieved here, and what is on "to do" list. From my understanding, it could easily transfer to 3D shooter with some rpg elements, with few options added additionally (other then keys and doors).
Being an experienced coder yourself, I am sure you appreciate what is achieved here on an (almost) vanilla A500.

Originally Posted by freehand

I am guessing you was drunk when making the silly post above bless ya.

LOL
I had same thought yesterday.
And I was drunk too.

[no9]

Originally Posted by KK/Altair

Atari XL/XE already had chunky mode. Considering it was designed by Jay Miner, the idea was definitely floating out there.

Of course he did consider that (->>19:30) [ Show youtube player ]

[trixster]

Doom was fast, exciting, gameplay was tight, level design was clever. It also looked incredible when played on a decent 486 and blew me and my mates away when we saw it and compared it to our Amigas/Megadrives/SNES games. It was just bigger and better.

Anyone trying to score points by saying it was daft and simple is missing the point and forgetting what it was like to see and play Doom back in 1993.

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by trixster

Anyone trying to score points by saying it was daft and simple is missing the point and forgetting what it was like to see and play Doom back in 1993.

Not really mate.
I wasn't blown up when I saw it for the first time.
I really wasn't.
I thought right away that textures looked very low res and very ugly... I still think that today...
I liked the gameplay thought... but faaaaaaar from being hyped out on the game.... It was just.. Ok-ish...

Now, Frontier impressed me very much, when I first saw it.
Loved the untextured clean look.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by trixster

Doom was fast, exciting, gameplay was tight, level design was clever. It also looked incredible when played on a decent 486 and blew me and my mates away when we saw it and compared it to our Amigas/Megadrives/SNES games. It was just bigger and better.

Anyone trying to score points by saying it was daft and simple is missing the point and forgetting what it was like to see and play Doom back in 1993.

For me, I always thought Doom was Wolfensteins bigger, better sequel. Wolfenstein was kind of an eye-popping moment when I first saw it, Doom just looked like a better version to me.

However, I do agree Doom was a good game. Not quite the classic some make it to be, but far better than what some have said in this thread. The design clearly shows thought to me. All just my opinion, of course

[khph_re]

Ultima Underworld was that ground breaking game for me, not doom.

If I play mass effect, Skyrim - I can see the lineage.

I liked doom, but I did wonder what the fuss was about. Maybe it was the ease of access compared to a RPG, or perhaps the multiplayer?

[utri007]

Originally Posted by khph_re

Ultima Underworld was that ground breaking game for me, not doom.

Trapped: Das Rad Von Talmar is Ultima underworld clone, nice and playable game.

http://hol.abime.net/1499

What Doom did better than other games in thta period is very well working save game system, wich keeped people to get back in the game.

I stopped to playing Breathless after second level, mostly because bad save game system.

Hopefully Dread has save game system like Doon, not like Breathless.

[rothers]

I'm in two minds about the Doom save system. For finishing the game on your first play it worked well.

However I never use it now. I save at the start of a level and part of the challenge to me is getting through it on one 'life'.

It makes it a much more challenging and scary game.

[ESC]

Doom is well designed in the sense that it's a fast paced action game, it also had great technology (for the time) to back it up, some people just don't like that sort of game and that's fine, the level design was tight for the most part (especially the first episode) and the monster design was great. Tom Hall wanted Doom to be more complex, you can read his design document called the Doom Bible, but I think it was the right call to strip it down to a more fast paced action game.

But I can understand from the RPG-crowds perspective Doom is too simple and boring and that's fine but it's not made for those people, it's like if you argued that a hamburger is a poorly designed pizza, even thought they're both foods they're not the same thing.

The only sad part is that Doom has overshadowed a lot of the other 2.5D games from the era, Ultima Underworld as an example.

[rabidgerry]

If Doom wasn't so special wtf is there so much talk about it here?

@d4rk3lf for someone who doesn't like FPS you sure have a lot to say about them including being all over this thread like a rash (and that's fine), which is all about a game that is being created in the style of Doom "new amiga 500 doom like !".

I find that really curious. Why so much interest in Doom which you weren't blown away by?

A lot of splitting hairs going on here regarding what makes a game good. The fact of the matter is when Doom came out your average gamer shit their pants over it and hence forth the trend in FPS games.

Perhaps people here look at this too much through "specialist" gamer acquired knowledge glasses and forget about the average gamer of which I consider myself one but just in the realm of Amiga games.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

If Doom wasn't so special wtf is there so much talk about it here?

I honestly think the main reason you see so much talk about Doom/Wolvenstein/Quake/etc on Amiga forums is because the Amiga hardware wasn't a very good match for such games (or rather, it was a pretty poor match). It's all about making it happen even though the system isn't suited for it. Which makes it an interesting topic for a community that has always been about getting 'the impossible' done

To me Dread is extremely impressive for those very reasons.

As for the people who claim it's a poor game, yeah that does kind of feel like a form of deflection. I'm not the worlds biggest FPS fan (though I did like the intense atmosphere of AB3D-II when I played it), but I can see why Doom is a good game easily. Denying that won't change the fact the Amiga didn't get a port until years and years later.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by roondar

I honestly think the main reason you see so much talk about Doom/Wolvenstein/Quake/etc on Amiga forums is because the Amiga hardware wasn't a very good match for such games (or rather, it was a pretty poor match). It's all about making it happen even though the system isn't suited for it. Which makes it an interesting topic for a community that has always been about getting 'the impossible' done

To me Dread is extremely impressive for those very reasons.

As for the people who claim it's a poor game, yeah that does kind of feel like a form of deflection. I'm not the worlds biggest FPS fan (though I did like the intense atmosphere of AB3D-II when I played it), but I can see why Doom is a good game easily. Denying that won't change the fact the Amiga didn't get a port until years and years later.

Yes I agree with you 100%

I'm not the world's biggest FPS fan either, but I am a fan of them otherwise those that are playable on 060 I wouldn't bother with.

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

@d4rk3lf for someone who doesn't like FPS you sure have a lot to say about them including being all over this thread like a rash (and that's fine), which is all about a game that is being created in the style of Doom "new amiga 500 doom like !".

I answered this question to you already, but here is one more time.
I think that this engine is magnificent technical achievement, especially, like Roondar mentioned, it's don for a computer that has planar graphics.
Besides, I love Amiga, and I am interested in anything on the Amiga.
Also, I think (and hope) that Dread can "grow up" and have some (simple) rpg mechanics. Even with just keys and doors, I suppose there can be done a lots of quests in a creative way, and with nice storytelling.

I am not a huge fan od Street Fighter 2 either (and I have always been a Mortal Kombat fan), but if someone would start remake of it, and open a thread for it, I'd be following that thread with great interest, and would post whenever I feel I am up to.

Sorry if I post here too often.. I am just excited for the project.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

I answered this question to you already, but here is one more time.
I think that this engine is magnificent technical achievement, especially, like Roondar mentioned, it's don for a computer that has planar graphics.
Besides, I love Amiga, and I am interested in anything on the Amiga.
Also, I think (and hope) that Dread can "grow up" and have some (simple) rpg mechanics. Even with just keys and doors, I suppose there can be done a lots of quests in a creative way, and with nice storytelling.

I am not a huge fan od Street Fighter 2 either (and I have always been a Mortal Kombat fan), but if someone would start remake of it, and open a thread for it, I'd be following that thread with great interest, and would post whenever I feel I am up to.

Sorry if I post here too often.. I am just excited for the project.

No it's not that you post here too often, it's just I don't believe you It's like you are kidding yourself or something. You always say you prefer the shitter option over the vastly improved option. Like that time you said you think the graphics in Citadel were better than Doom So now you think plane polygons is better than texture mapped. Ok each to their own but really??? This is more like saying you prefer vintage cars over modern cars. And that's ok, but lets be honest, polygons are dated and if they could have done better all those years ago then they would have.

I think you are one of these people that has a real bee in their bonnet about Doom and the Amiga and all that stuff and you like the idea of Dread breaking down those boundaries and proving the past history wrong and going one step further by doing it on a lowest spec machine (A500). I too like this, in fact love this. I'm always for the underdog and I'm honest about it.

[Havie]

I think Doom is a great FPS shooter and that's what it does - nothing else! Certainly for it's time, way ahead technologically and whatever anyone says, the Amiga was caught out in the 3D arms race at this point and if you owned an Amiga back then, you wanted your own version of Doom. AB3D was an excellent substitute and a really good game in the Doom mould - not pretending to be anything else.

I think Dread looks amazing and brings back these vibes and on an A500 too! I am sure that there can be adaptions to the engine but what it is plainly aiming to do is to create a Doom like game that runs at a more than playable speed on a base A500 - something that would have been a wonder to behold in 90s!

It is sad to see the negativity towards this brilliant bit of coding and kudos to KK for not getting drawn in and his positive and constructive replies!

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Havie

I think Doom is a great FPS shooter and that's what it does - nothing else! Certainly for it's time, way ahead technologically and whatever anyone says, the Amiga was caught out in the 3D arms race at this point and if you owned an Amiga back then, you wanted your own version of Doom. AB3D was an excellent substitute and a really good game in the Doom mould - not pretending to be anything else.

I think Dread looks amazing and brings back these vibes and on an A500 too! I am sure that there can be adaptions to the engine but what it is plainly aiming to do is to create a Doom like game that runs at a more than playable speed on a base A500 - something that would have been a wonder to behold in 90s!

It is sad to see the negativity towards this brilliant bit of coding and kudos to KK for not getting drawn in and his positive and constructive replies!

100% agree. This is why I cannot wait for a finished game myself.

[Cobe]

KK twoj "port" je zajebisty! Tsak you rule too!

I wonder how much less posts would be here if it wasnt a beer

Mm, and yeah, when I'm already here, couldnt you "copperize" the sky a bit? I guess it shares the same pallete with everything below but you can change certain color back to "original" color even dinamicly below certain y value.
And scrolling clouds at 2px doesnt look well if its slow. So maybe it doesnt have to be clouds.. maybe fog, plasma.. hell you said its not earth, anything that can scroll quickly without fealing that its unrealistic.

[saimon69]

Would love to see an old amiga FPS experiment like Corporation remade and adapted to the Dread Engine since i though the control system of the original did suck -_-

[Photon]

Sorry for responding, what keeps the thread alive is opinions and tangents, like talking about PC at all, for which I apologize.

I didn't mean to offend lovers of dumb shooters, but I probably did. (2D) Shoot'em-ups were super popular and I played them, even dumb ones, on Amiga and arcade. Their popularity kept on for a bit but then waned.

If American consumers or industry had understood Amiga, Amiga is what would have gotten the graphics cards and CPU upgrades (in popular numbers). Thoughts on why not are decades late and will just inflame unproductive debate.

I did write about some technical aspects, and I think the thread is best kept for that and discussing Doom clones. Chunky pops up now and then as a technical challenge (for non-RTG users like me), but I think there's quite a way from a screenmode to a game.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Photon

I did write about some technical aspects, and I think the thread is best kept for that and discussing Doom clones.

To be clear we're not discussing 'Doom clones' in general here but about the Dread project: a new fps engine for a500 and it's development