Help request for UltraSCSI 68pin to A3000 - Drive not seen in HDToolbox

csanii · 17 February 2020, 16:16

I have an Amiga3000 with OSv3.1 and I am trying to connect an IBM Ultrastar DDYS-T36950 36GB Ultra 160 SCSI drive.
The drive has a 68 pin connector so I bought a 68 to 50 pin SCSI adapter like this:
https://www.ebay.com.hk/itm/233446371577?ul_noapp=true

I tried having the drive at the end of the SCSI chain as well as in the middle.
The drive doesn't appear in HDToolbox regardless of location.

The drive has 2 sets of Jumper pins (J4 and J6) which I set as per below:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/28...star-36lp.html

JP4
SCSI ID#4 (Pins 11+12) so it wouldn't conflict with my other drives.
Termination Power enabled (Pins 3+4)
Force Single Ended Mode(Pins 5+6).

JP6
Auto-spin up set [Pins 1+2)
Parity disabled[Pins 7+8]
Disable Unit Attention[Pins11+12]

Still no luck...

Questions:
1) I know AmigaDOS can't format larger than 4GB drives but should it still be able to see this drive in HDToolbox ?
If not then what do you need to do to "see" drives larger than 4GB so you can partition them ?

2) The manual says the drive has a LVD (Low Voltage Differential) interface that can work with single-ended drives but at lower than the maximum 160MB/s speed. Has anyone else gotten this LVD drive to work on their system and if so what settings did you use ?

3] Any ideas what I need to do to get the drive to be "seen" in HDToolbox ?

Kin Hell · 17 February 2020, 17:57

You'll need to terminate the End of the 68 way SCSI cable with a 68 Pin Terminator.

csanii · 17 February 2020, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kin Hell

You'll need to terminate the End of the 68 way SCSI cable with a 68 Pin Terminator.

Wiring setup is:
A3000 with internal drive
--->25 pin external SCSI adapter --> 50 pin SCSI cable
From the 50 pin SCSI cable
---> SCSI drive external#1
---> SCSI drive external#2
---> 50pin to 68pin adapter -->Ultra SCSI 68 pin drive

I also tried:
--->25 pin external SCSI adapter --> 50 pin SCSI cable
From the 50 pin SCSI cable
---> SCSI drive external#1
---> 50pin to 68pin adapter -->Ultra SCSI 68 pin drive
---> SCSI drive external#2

In both cases I can see the 50 pin SCSI drives but the 68 pin drive isn't seen.

Are you saying that I need to terminate the 68 pin drive regardless if it is at end or middle of SCSI chain ?

Hedeon · 17 February 2020, 19:41

I always use high byte termination while using converters. I now have a 50 pins to 68 pins converted on my A3000 MB and a 68 pins to 80 pins converted on my HD. The converters itself have termination of the upper bits.

https://www.cablesdirect.com/store/p/2948.aspx

I am not saying that is the correct item, but as an example that I look for stuff that explicitly state high byte termination.

I use the same for my UW SCSI on my CS in my A4000 which has a mix of 50 pins, 68 pins and one 80 pin devices.

Also, is there termination installed on the MB? otherwise if you only install externally or only internally, one side is not terminated. If internally installed, you could put a terminator on the external 25 pins ports too.

I also never put a device at the end of a chain, but a terminator.

nogginthenog · 17 February 2020, 19:43

Where is your termination? Does one of your external drives provide it?

I used one like this on my CyberSCSI for decades:
https://scsishop.co.uk/product/68-pi...ale-new-boxed/

My external adapter (which I don't use) provides termination via a jumper.

csanii · 17 February 2020, 20:19

My A3000 has whatever termination it came with. I never changed it.
Is there a way to tell without opening up the device ?

My 1st external 50 pin drive does not have the terminator resistors.
My 3rd external drive (also 50 pin) has the terminator resistors.
I tried using the UW SCSI as the last (ie#4) in the chain as well as in the middle (ie#2) of the chain. In both cases it was not recognized.
My 68pin to 50pin adapter didn't mention termination so perhaps that is the issue.
My 50 pin SCSI cable has no terminator on the cable itself.

Question if I have several 50 to 68 pin adapters do all need termination or would only the last in the chain ?
ie. with a 25 pin to 50 pin SCSI cable with multiple 50 pin connectors....
external 50 pin drive #1 - no termination
external 68 pin drive #2 using 50 pin to 68 pin adapter - do I terminate this ?
external 50 pin drive #3 - no termination
external 68 pin drive #4 using 50 pin to 68 pin adapter - do I terminate this ?
external 68 pin drive #5 using 50 pin to 68 pin adapter - do I terminate this ?

Would it be better to have all 50 pin items early in the SCSI chain and then use a 50->68 pin converter and use a 68 pin cable to connect the 68 pin drives or is it better to convert each drive using a separate 50->68 converter or is there no difference ?

pipper · 18 February 2020, 01:25

Maybe try the simplest setup possible: connect just that one single drive to the internal 50pin connector and see if it can be found this way.

Jope · 18 February 2020, 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by csanii

My A3000 has whatever termination it came with. I never changed it.
Is there a way to tell without opening up the device ?

My 1st external 50 pin drive does not have the terminator resistors.
My 3rd external drive (also 50 pin) has the terminator resistors.
I tried using the UW SCSI as the last (ie#4) in the chain as well as in the middle (ie#2) of the chain. In both cases it was not recognized.
My 68pin to 50pin adapter didn't mention termination so perhaps that is the issue.
My 50 pin SCSI cable has no terminator on the cable itself.

Question if I have several 50 to 68 pin adapters do all need termination or would only the last in the chain ?
ie. with a 25 pin to 50 pin SCSI cable with multiple 50 pin connectors....
external 50 pin drive #1 - no termination
external 68 pin drive #2 using 50 pin to 68 pin adapter - do I terminate this ?
external 50 pin drive #3 - no termination
external 68 pin drive #4 using 50 pin to 68 pin adapter - do I terminate this ?
external 68 pin drive #5 using 50 pin to 68 pin adapter - do I terminate this ?

Would it be better to have all 50 pin items early in the SCSI chain and then use a 50->68 pin converter and use a 68 pin cable to connect the 68 pin drives or is it better to convert each drive using a separate 50->68 converter or is there no difference ?

When the host adapter is 50 pin, it doesn't actually matter that much, as long as your termination is correct.

The easiest most surefire way to do it is to disable termination in all devices and use separate physical terminators at the ends of the chain.

Having a 50 pin bus all the way with 50 -> 68 converters for each of your wide devices will make it very straightforward to understand.

Check to see whether you have termpower without any devices on the bus. Then also disable termpower on all of your devices if the host adapter is already feeding it.

Kin Hell · 19 February 2020, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by csanii

Wiring setup is:
A3000 with internal drive
--->25 pin external SCSI adapter --> 50 pin SCSI cable
From the 50 pin SCSI cable
---> SCSI drive external#1
---> SCSI drive external#2
---> 50pin to 68pin adapter -->Ultra SCSI 68 pin drive

I also tried:
--->25 pin external SCSI adapter --> 50 pin SCSI cable
From the 50 pin SCSI cable
---> SCSI drive external#1
---> 50pin to 68pin adapter -->Ultra SCSI 68 pin drive
---> SCSI drive external#2

In both cases I can see the 50 pin SCSI drives but the 68 pin drive isn't seen.

Are you saying that I need to terminate the 68 pin drive regardless if it is at end or middle of SCSI chain ?

Indeed not. Your 68 Pin device needs to be terminated/converted correctly.

Termination Packs need to be @ both ends of the SCSI bus or you need to Terminate the end of the SCSI Bus with a Device that supports Termination.

Most "Made in China" 50 to 68 converters as the one you describe above usually don't work correctly: - I have a shed load along with a "T-Shirt" hanging in the wardrobe to prove it...

nogginthenog endorses one from the SCSI Shop & I too found success using one for an Amiga I built for Export to ravestar in Italy: Post #20 - Page 2

Jope makes sense too, by using a SCSI Shop style converter for each WIDE SCSI device to keep a 50 Way Ribbon controlling the Bus. - Talk to the SCSI Shop about converting to a 68 Way cable & keep costs minimal if using several 68 Pin devices.

Don't also forget the A3000 has a 25 Way SCSI Port on the back of the Box. This should have a 25 Way Active terminator in it if no "out-of-the-box" SCSI devices are being used. - In simple terms, with multiple SCSI devices in the A3K, Termination packs on the Mobo need to be in place along with an Active one in the 25 Pin Rear SCSI port. Termination of all SCSI Devices on the SCSI Bus need to be set off, or any device after the one running Termination via Jumper, will not be seen.
When you use the Rear 25 way SCSI port, the last physical Device on the external SCSI chain needs to be Actively Terminated. Passive ones don't usually work with SCSI II.

Jope · 19 February 2020, 11:24

Brand name male male 50-68 adapters have worked well for me:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-5182-4551...A/202797154203

17 February 2020, 20:19	#6
csanii Registered User Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 19	SCSI drive termination My A3000 has whatever termination it came with. I never changed it. Is there a way to tell without opening up the device ? My 1st external 50 pin drive does not have the terminator resistors. My 3rd external drive (also 50 pin) has the terminator resistors. I tried using the UW SCSI as the last (ie#4) in the chain as well as in the middle (ie#2) of the chain. In both cases it was not recognized. My 68pin to 50pin adapter didn't mention termination so perhaps that is the issue. My 50 pin SCSI cable has no terminator on the cable itself. Question if I have several 50 to 68 pin adapters do all need termination or would only the last in the chain ? ie. with a 25 pin to 50 pin SCSI cable with multiple 50 pin connectors.... external 50 pin drive #1 - no termination external 68 pin drive #2 using 50 pin to 68 pin adapter - do I terminate this ? external 50 pin drive #3 - no termination external 68 pin drive #4 using 50 pin to 68 pin adapter - do I terminate this ? external 68 pin drive #5 using 50 pin to 68 pin adapter - do I terminate this ? Would it be better to have all 50 pin items early in the SCSI chain and then use a 50->68 pin converter and use a 68 pin cable to connect the 68 pin drives or is it better to convert each drive using a separate 50->68 converter or is there no difference ?

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17 February 2020, 16:16	#1
csanii Registered User Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 19	Help request for UltraSCSI 68pin to A3000 - Drive not seen in HDToolbox I have an Amiga3000 with OSv3.1 and I am trying to connect an IBM Ultrastar DDYS-T36950 36GB Ultra 160 SCSI drive. The drive has a 68 pin connector so I bought a 68 to 50 pin SCSI adapter like this: https://www.ebay.com.hk/itm/233446371577?ul_noapp=true I tried having the drive at the end of the SCSI chain as well as in the middle. The drive doesn't appear in HDToolbox regardless of location. The drive has 2 sets of Jumper pins (J4 and J6) which I set as per below: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/28...star-36lp.html JP4 SCSI ID#4 (Pins 11+12) so it wouldn't conflict with my other drives. Termination Power enabled (Pins 3+4) Force Single Ended Mode(Pins 5+6). JP6 Auto-spin up set [Pins 1+2) Parity disabled[Pins 7+8] Disable Unit Attention[Pins11+12] Still no luck... Questions: 1) I know AmigaDOS can't format larger than 4GB drives but should it still be able to see this drive in HDToolbox ? If not then what do you need to do to "see" drives larger than 4GB so you can partition them ? 2) The manual says the drive has a LVD (Low Voltage Differential) interface that can work with single-ended drives but at lower than the maximum 160MB/s speed. Has anyone else gotten this LVD drive to work on their system and if so what settings did you use ? 3] Any ideas what I need to do to get the drive to be "seen" in HDToolbox ?

17 February 2020, 17:57	#2
Kin Hell 0ld0r Git Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 1,649	You'll need to terminate the End of the 68 way SCSI cable with a 68 Pin Terminator.

17 February 2020, 19:41	#4
Hedeon Semi-Retired Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Leiden / The Netherlands Posts: 2,039	I always use high byte termination while using converters. I now have a 50 pins to 68 pins converted on my A3000 MB and a 68 pins to 80 pins converted on my HD. The converters itself have termination of the upper bits. https://www.cablesdirect.com/store/p/2948.aspx I am not saying that is the correct item, but as an example that I look for stuff that explicitly state high byte termination. I use the same for my UW SCSI on my CS in my A4000 which has a mix of 50 pins, 68 pins and one 80 pin devices. Also, is there termination installed on the MB? otherwise if you only install externally or only internally, one side is not terminated. If internally installed, you could put a terminator on the external 25 pins ports too. I also never put a device at the end of a chain, but a terminator. Last edited by Hedeon; 17 February 2020 at 19:49.

17 February 2020, 19:43	#5
nogginthenog Amigan Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: London Posts: 1,317	Where is your termination? Does one of your external drives provide it? I used one like this on my CyberSCSI for decades: https://scsishop.co.uk/product/68-pi...ale-new-boxed/ My external adapter (which I don't use) provides termination via a jumper.

18 February 2020, 01:25	#7
pipper Registered User Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: San Jose Posts: 676	Maybe try the simplest setup possible: connect just that one single drive to the internal 50pin connector and see if it can be found this way.

19 February 2020, 11:24	#10
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,910	Brand name male male 50-68 adapters have worked well for me: https://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-5182-4551...A/202797154203

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