Upgrading Apollo 1240 to 1260 a definitive How To Guide - Page 15

bebek · 11 December 2009, 17:07

I am not proud of what have I done ... .Free style. Go easy on me please. I know how it looks like .. Anyway I have a problem again, no memory, zero, again I think I tested all possibilities and null, any tips?

bebek · 18 December 2009, 23:03

Problem with memory solved, looks like it was bad connection on small mach. Do you think it is a good idea to remove sockets and solder mach direct to the board ? Do you know maybe why sysinfo and aibb hung up the system ?

OK. I need your help, I hate this card now, mach's are loosing contact all the time so they will go direct on the board but even when it works it hungs up on any benchmark test I use (AIBB and sysinfo). I have installed a fresh 3.1 system, three libs from apollo 060 disc and it does not want to boot (boots ok with 030 - disc is a flashcard). It does boot from apollo disc but hungs when I want to run sysinfo 3.24. I found that sysinfo will run when before I load it from hard drive I remove floppy disc. Test shows 1.24 of A4000/25 ... bleee ... and hungs while tests mflops. Has anybody got any idea what to do with it. If it will not work I swear I am going to put my foot on it. Please save it

.

Chain · 23 December 2009, 22:12

aibb needs to be run in 68000 mode otherwise it will crash on 060 iirc.

someone with hotair can swap mach socker for you im sure

bebek · 23 December 2009, 23:00

Soldering machs is not a problem, I have got all equipment to do that. Workbench does not boot from hard drive ... that is the biggest one ...

8bitbubsy · 20 January 2010, 09:19

How should I desolder the 040 CPU?
These are the tools I have:
- 15W soldering iron with thin tip
- Desoldering wick
- Desoldering pump
- Flux pen

What's the best desoldering tool for this situation? Desoldering pump or the desoldering wick?

I know this will take forever, but I'm patient!

Jope · 20 January 2010, 10:18

Use the pump on each leg to get out as much as possible, then heat the pins with a hot air soldering station. The chip should weigh enough to just drop onto your table once you have heated the board enough.

Do it in a circular motion to avoid scorching the board.

If you've never done this before, think twice, perhaps practice on something else first.

8bitbubsy · 20 January 2010, 10:19

I don't have a hot air soldering station...

Jope · 20 January 2010, 10:49

I'm afraid I can't recommend you continue with this if you do not have the resources and skills needed. This is not a thankful board to practice on.

A wick / pump is not sufficient to clean out all the solder from the holes. Wick is especially bad, as you end up heating the board + component a lot as you wait for it to suck the solder out from inside the hole. The components don't like excessive heat, neither do the thin pads and tracks on the board (they will lift out or break).

These are multilayer boards with copper plated holes. That means either you must remove all the solder from each hole in order to get the component out cleanly, or you must use hot air to evenly melt the solder so that the component can drop out or be helped out if it is too light to drop out on it's own.

If you leave some solder in the hole and decide to just wrench out the component, you will end up with lifted vias and pads, effectively meaning your board is ruined.

Are you absolutely sure you want to do this yourself? I must say, that this is one of those cases that if you have to ask, stop right there.

8bitbubsy · 20 January 2010, 10:50

Okay, I see... I might ask PG @ amiga.org to do it for me

Chain · 25 January 2010, 18:57

well, hotair isnt needed for thru-hole components (it isnt even recommended). 040 can be desoldered just with pump and beefy soldering iron or, with desoldering pistol which is soldering iron combined with desoldering pump.
it will still take a lot of time, dont hurry on it.

8bitbubsy · 25 January 2010, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chain

well, hotair isnt needed for thru-hole components (it isnt even recommended). 040 can be desoldered just with pump and beefy soldering iron or, with desoldering pistol which is soldering iron combined with desoldering pump.
it will still take a lot of time, dont hurry on it.

What's "beefy soldering iron"?

I have two soldering irons: One 30W with a big tip, and one 15W with a thin tip... I guess I need the 15W one, right?

bebek · 25 January 2010, 21:58

You have to give it enough power to heat all solder in a thru-hole, to make it easier add a little bit of solder first, it helps heating it up, always make sure the leg is loose in a hole, if not give her a gently push, if there is no solder it should disconnect from the barrel, DO NOT use a force to do it.

Shadowfire · 27 January 2010, 01:13

I don't recomment anyone doing ANY PCB rework with a non-temperature-controlled iron, it is WAY too easy to burn the board/components.

alexh · 27 January 2010, 14:44

Such a shame you don't live in the UK. I could have whipped it off in 5 mins.

Too much like hard work to do international postage etc.

Chain · 27 January 2010, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

What's "beefy soldering iron"?

I have two soldering irons: One 30W with a big tip, and one 15W with a thin tip... I guess I need the 15W one, right?

iron with less wattage will cold down easily and you will need a lot of time to heat each pin properly. im using 40w one, temp controlled of course. those basic soldering irons which are only heat element and power cord alre just for fun (or it can be used as second tip for smd caps desoldering

)

Secret Vampire · 21 February 2010, 19:51

Chain, What temp would you recommend to get enough heat into the board without burning it? I have a Weller TCP, so I need to buy different tips if I want more or less heat, right now I have an 800F one in, but it's too long and thin, so on multilayer boards or heavy connectors the heat just gets sucked out of it.

Zetr0 · 21 February 2010, 22:54

@Secret Vampire

to be honest, if you are thinking of trying to remove the CPU with anything other than HOT AIR you are in for a long .... LOOOOONNGGG.... dissapointing several hours

my only suggestion is to remove the resitors and capacitors and then then run hot-air -

you want about 5 minutes pre-heat at about 180c then another 5 minutes at 240c then about 8 minutes at about 380c

you may need to bring the heat closer to 400c pending on the card age

doing this by iron / pump and or braid is just going to lead to frustration my friend.

Secret Vampire · 22 February 2010, 20:42

To be honest I suspected as much, though, I am currently looking at vacuum desoldering stations on ebay, there are quite a few ATM, but they may end up going for silly prices. the ability to maintain a vacuum should help fully suck the solder from the holes, though hot air would be quicker, I have other projects which require desoldering where hot air might be a bit brutal, such as removing simm sockets from a 486 board to replace the knackered ones on an A2000 Accelerator.
Though, I'm not even sure I should keep the 1240, might be better off selling it and one of my A1200s and using the proceeds to fund more useful stuff like a proper GFX card for the A2000, and an 030 of some flavour for the remaining 1200, but I'd probably be able to recoup the cost of the 060 and more if I did upgrade it and decide to sell...

Chain · 24 February 2010, 13:36

Ive used "handy" or "rifle" type desoldering gun with vacuum pump inside:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hot-Air-Gun-El...item3a5800cac9

it works surprisingly good, but it still needs a lot of practise

Dimlow · 24 February 2010, 13:47

For the price of that, you can get a good hot air system. i dont recommend that vacuum pump, i have one, its easy to damage the PCB track with this.

11 December 2009, 17:07	#281
bebek Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Poole UK Posts: 349	I am not proud of what have I done ... .Free style. Go easy on me please. I know how it looks like .. Anyway I have a problem again, no memory, zero, again I think I tested all possibilities and null, any tips? Attached Thumbnails

18 December 2009, 23:03	#282
bebek Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Poole UK Posts: 349	Problem with memory solved, looks like it was bad connection on small mach. Do you think it is a good idea to remove sockets and solder mach direct to the board ? Do you know maybe why sysinfo and aibb hung up the system ? OK. I need your help, I hate this card now, mach's are loosing contact all the time so they will go direct on the board but even when it works it hungs up on any benchmark test I use (AIBB and sysinfo). I have installed a fresh 3.1 system, three libs from apollo 060 disc and it does not want to boot (boots ok with 030 - disc is a flashcard). It does boot from apollo disc but hungs when I want to run sysinfo 3.24. I found that sysinfo will run when before I load it from hard drive I remove floppy disc. Test shows 1.24 of A4000/25 ... bleee ... and hungs while tests mflops. Has anybody got any idea what to do with it. If it will not work I swear I am going to put my foot on it. Please save it . Last edited by bebek; 22 December 2009 at 17:38.

20 January 2010, 09:19	#285
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,710	How should I desolder the 040 CPU? These are the tools I have: - 15W soldering iron with thin tip - Desoldering wick - Desoldering pump - Flux pen What's the best desoldering tool for this situation? Desoldering pump or the desoldering wick? I know this will take forever, but I'm patient! Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 20 January 2010 at 09:27.

20 January 2010, 10:49	#288
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	I'm afraid I can't recommend you continue with this if you do not have the resources and skills needed. This is not a thankful board to practice on. A wick / pump is not sufficient to clean out all the solder from the holes. Wick is especially bad, as you end up heating the board + component a lot as you wait for it to suck the solder out from inside the hole. The components don't like excessive heat, neither do the thin pads and tracks on the board (they will lift out or break). These are multilayer boards with copper plated holes. That means either you must remove all the solder from each hole in order to get the component out cleanly, or you must use hot air to evenly melt the solder so that the component can drop out or be helped out if it is too light to drop out on it's own. If you leave some solder in the hole and decide to just wrench out the component, you will end up with lifted vias and pads, effectively meaning your board is ruined. Are you absolutely sure you want to do this yourself? I must say, that this is one of those cases that if you have to ask, stop right there. Last edited by Jope; 20 January 2010 at 12:54.

22 February 2010, 20:42	#298
Secret Vampire Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Birmingham UK Age: 42 Posts: 214	To be honest I suspected as much, though, I am currently looking at vacuum desoldering stations on ebay, there are quite a few ATM, but they may end up going for silly prices. the ability to maintain a vacuum should help fully suck the solder from the holes, though hot air would be quicker, I have other projects which require desoldering where hot air might be a bit brutal, such as removing simm sockets from a 486 board to replace the knackered ones on an A2000 Accelerator. Though, I'm not even sure I should keep the 1240, might be better off selling it and one of my A1200s and using the proceeds to fund more useful stuff like a proper GFX card for the A2000, and an 030 of some flavour for the remaining 1200, but I'd probably be able to recoup the cost of the 060 and more if I did upgrade it and decide to sell... Last edited by Secret Vampire; 22 February 2010 at 20:51.

23 December 2009, 22:12	#283
Chain A-Collector, repairments Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Czech Rep. Age: 50 Posts: 1,536	aibb needs to be run in 68000 mode otherwise it will crash on 060 iirc. someone with hotair can swap mach socker for you im sure

23 December 2009, 23:00	#284
bebek Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Poole UK Posts: 349	Soldering machs is not a problem, I have got all equipment to do that. Workbench does not boot from hard drive ... that is the biggest one ...

20 January 2010, 10:18	#286
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Use the pump on each leg to get out as much as possible, then heat the pins with a hot air soldering station. The chip should weigh enough to just drop onto your table once you have heated the board enough. Do it in a circular motion to avoid scorching the board. If you've never done this before, think twice, perhaps practice on something else first.

20 January 2010, 10:19	#287
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,710	I don't have a hot air soldering station...

20 January 2010, 10:50	#289
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,710	Okay, I see... I might ask PG @ amiga.org to do it for me

25 January 2010, 18:57	#290
Chain A-Collector, repairments Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Czech Rep. Age: 50 Posts: 1,536	well, hotair isnt needed for thru-hole components (it isnt even recommended). 040 can be desoldered just with pump and beefy soldering iron or, with desoldering pistol which is soldering iron combined with desoldering pump. it will still take a lot of time, dont hurry on it.

25 January 2010, 21:58	#292
bebek Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Poole UK Posts: 349	You have to give it enough power to heat all solder in a thru-hole, to make it easier add a little bit of solder first, it helps heating it up, always make sure the leg is loose in a hole, if not give her a gently push, if there is no solder it should disconnect from the barrel, DO NOT use a force to do it.

27 January 2010, 01:13	#293
Shadowfire Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Connecticut USA Posts: 617	I don't recomment anyone doing ANY PCB rework with a non-temperature-controlled iron, it is WAY too easy to burn the board/components.

27 January 2010, 14:44	#294
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	Such a shame you don't live in the UK. I could have whipped it off in 5 mins. Too much like hard work to do international postage etc.

21 February 2010, 19:51	#296
Secret Vampire Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Birmingham UK Age: 42 Posts: 214	Chain, What temp would you recommend to get enough heat into the board without burning it? I have a Weller TCP, so I need to buy different tips if I want more or less heat, right now I have an 800F one in, but it's too long and thin, so on multilayer boards or heavy connectors the heat just gets sucked out of it.

21 February 2010, 22:54	#297
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@Secret Vampire to be honest, if you are thinking of trying to remove the CPU with anything other than HOT AIR you are in for a long .... LOOOOONNGGG.... dissapointing several hours my only suggestion is to remove the resitors and capacitors and then then run hot-air - you want about 5 minutes pre-heat at about 180c then another 5 minutes at 240c then about 8 minutes at about 380c you may need to bring the heat closer to 400c pending on the card age doing this by iron / pump and or braid is just going to lead to frustration my friend.

24 February 2010, 13:36	#299
Chain A-Collector, repairments Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Czech Rep. Age: 50 Posts: 1,536	Ive used "handy" or "rifle" type desoldering gun with vacuum pump inside: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hot-Air-Gun-El...item3a5800cac9 it works surprisingly good, but it still needs a lot of practise

24 February 2010, 13:47	#300
Dimlow Likes to be thought of as Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kent,UK Age: 55 Posts: 529	For the price of that, you can get a good hot air system. i dont recommend that vacuum pump, i have one, its easy to damage the PCB track with this.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Apollo 1260 to a 1240 problems	Kitch	support.Hardware	26	15 December 2012 07:17
[A1200] Apollo 1240/1260 and WHDLoad	8bitbubsy	support.Hardware	13	28 January 2010 23:41
Apollo 1240 to 1260 ROM file	8bitbubsy	support.Hardware	3	21 January 2010 04:23
Schematics for Apollo 1240/1260	GT76	support.Hardware	5	08 July 2009 10:18
upgrading Apollo 1240	@UAE	support.Hardware	2	20 May 2007 15:09