a frenchy who knows assembler !

turrican3 · 17 February 2015, 07:55

I guys is there frenchies who know assembler ?

matthey · 17 February 2015, 17:53

Have you heard of Meynaf or Cosmos?

Galahad/FLT · 17 February 2015, 19:08

Psygore and JOTD

Nekoniaow · 17 February 2015, 21:00

My 68k is rusty but I can speak assembler.

kamelito · 17 February 2015, 22:38

Cosmos, http://assembly68k.blogspot.fr/p/urls.html
check it's blog there's 68k tuto done by him.
There's also Lexomil
http://flabrador.free.fr/index.html
Kamelito

turrican3 · 17 February 2015, 23:23

thanks guys for the reply,
i wanted to learn assembler, i said that i must code since i'm 10.
i lost near 30 years !!! i have to do it now.
That's why i was looking for a guy who knows by where to begin... And for the best should have been to learn with a book in french 1st but which one ?? in french for the basics, i think it will easier for me to progress if this is 1st in french, perhaps i'm wrong. What is the 1st step for a guy who want to code ?? Keep in mind that i know nothing in coding, or just a little.
The amiga needs that more and more of us learn coding.
But i'm speaking of myself.
What's the best 1st step ?

turrican3 · 17 February 2015, 23:26

meynaf offcourse and jotd, i was really tired.

Thanks for the links.

how many times it takes to learn asm ?? I mean to do a little simple game like tetris ?? Is it better to begin with c ??

heavy · 17 February 2015, 23:45

you can find the Amiga News Tech issues in PDF here :
http://www.abandonware-magazines.org...ag.php?mag=191

others french coders ? hitchhikr (http://demozoo.org/sceners/10106/), Stormbringer (http://www.retro-remakes.net/index.php )

cours ASM Funx/Phoenix

Nekoniaow · 18 February 2015, 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by turrican3

meynaf offcourse and jotd, i was really tired.

Thanks for the links.

how many times it takes to learn asm ?? I mean to do a little simple game like tetris ?? Is it better to begin with c ??

If you want to learn coding, you should probably start with a language simpler than assembly.

Assembly is great, especially on the Amiga, but it's the equivalent of starting Formula1 driving when you haven't yet learned to drive a normal car: it will just get you straight into the wall with a lot of pain and will dissuade you to continue.

You need to walk before you can run so I would suggest you start learning C, which is much simpler and will give you a good idea of what coding is.

Once you have done the necessary efforts to master C it will be much easier for you to learn assembly and to be good at it.

It's better to set smaller but realistic goals if you want to achieve success.

turrican3 · 18 February 2015, 04:27

Thank you guys,
then learning C is the 1st step ok.
By where is the best to begin ???
Buying a book ?? go back to school at night ???
Which way worked for you, or whichadvice could you give me ?
My goal is to give something back to the amiga.

Nekoniaow · 18 February 2015, 15:21

I learned C using a Micro Application book for the Amiga actually.

I do not think I still have the book because I didn't find it when I foraged through my Amiga stuff at my parents this Xmas but maybe you can find it on Ebay or in bookstores.

That book was quite good it I can't for the hell of me remember its name!

Update:
I found this one: http://obligement.free.fr/articles/a...rogrammers.php
It's not a Micro Application book so it's in English but it comes from the same source (Data Becker) that Micro Application was using for its French books so it's very likely to be the same one I had (except in English).

It's usually available only in the USA but there's currently a package with many Abacus books on Ebay, possibly including this one.
I had thought of getting my hands on that package and I could send you the C book if it's in there.

I'll check it this afternoon and will post more about it. But the French edition should be available somewhere on the Internet, there's no way French people would throw their books to the bin: you probably can find it in used bookstores.

matthey · 18 February 2015, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekoniaow

That book was quite good it I can't for the hell of me remember its name!

Update:
I found this one: http://obligement.free.fr/articles/a...rogrammers.php
It's not a Micro Application book so it's in English but it comes from the same source (Data Becker) that Micro Application was using for its French books so it's very likely to be the same one I had (except in English).

"Amiga C for Advanced Programmers" is the 2nd book, The 1st book is "Amiga C for Beginners". I have "Amiga C for Beginners" but I wouldn't rate it that highly. IMO, it is average at best much like many of the other Abacus books. If it can easily be found then you will probably learn something from it but I wouldn't go to too much trouble to find one.

Assembler is a little more difficult and less forgiving than C but in some ways more basic and understandable due to less abstraction. One or the other may be easier for some people to learn. It's kind of like the difference between algebra and geometry, Try one for awhile and if it doesn't click or you are lost then try the other. The understanding should come together learning both in this way.

The best beginner books and online tutorials in C are probably not Amiga specific nor do they need to be. It is helpful to find 68k assembler books and tutorials which are Amiga specific though. I can't think of any Amiga books which are good enough and up to date enough to recommend and that is in English. Searching should find some online resources though. There are probably some links right here on EAB in "English Amiga Board > Coders > Coders .General":

http://eab.abime.net/forumdisplay.php?f=73

turrican3 · 18 February 2015, 23:29

Thanks guys for all this help.

Photon · 18 February 2015, 23:36

I think ham and fra still insist on C!!

But man, lots of frenchies have known Assembler... often they made very interesting demos and games, I have many favorites there

kamelito · 18 February 2015, 23:45

I'm not sure if learning C is the right move even Eric Chahi never manage to learn C for whatever reason but he did wonderful games in 6502, Z80 and 68000...
Kamelito

Nekoniaow · 19 February 2015, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthey

"Amiga C for Advanced Programmers" is the 2nd book, The 1st book is "Amiga C for Beginners". I have "Amiga C for Beginners" but I wouldn't rate it that highly. IMO, it is average at best much like many of the other Abacus books. If it can easily be found then you will probably learn something from it but I wouldn't go to too much trouble to find one.

Damn, and I thought I was fully awoken when I posted that.

It's indeed the beginner book I was mentioning, I am surprised though that you found it average since I have a pleasant memory of learning C with it but then again the language I was most proficient in at that time was the GFA BASIC (which I still hold in high esteem) so I was not exactly a pro.

Quote:

The best beginner books and online tutorials in C are probably not Amiga specific nor do they need to be. It is helpful to find 68k assembler books and tutorials which are Amiga specific though. I can't think of any Amiga books which are good enough and up to date enough to recommend and that is in English. Searching should find some online resources though. There are probably some links right here on EAB in "English Amiga Board > Coders > Coders .General":
http://eab.abime.net/forumdisplay.php?f=73

There's an advantage to books targeted to Amiga users, they allow you to learn the language and some of the Amiga specificities at the same time. I mean printf is nice and dandy and works everywhere but it's boring, opening an Intuition window or creating a copper list is way more fun.

turrican3 · 19 February 2015, 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamelito

I'm not sure if learning C is the right move even Eric Chahi never manage to learn C for whatever reason but he did wonderful games in 6502, Z80 and 68000...
Kamelito

eric chahi coded with assembler ?
Could you tell me which game was done in assembler and which one in c on amiga ??
The assembler is the goal for me, i would like to do a great shoot-them-up for the amiga, i have some ideas but can't code.
Finall, you think i should learn assembler directly ? How many time does take you guys (coders) to know enough the amiga specific asm to make a good game like z-out ?? is it in years in months ?? I know that everybody is different but in your case ?
Is there others things to learn ?? Mathematics, algorithm, etc... i suppose in the case of the amiga to realize incredibles effects you need good mathematics, there is no chipset for rotations etc.. like in a snes.
But brian the lion proves that the amiga can do it better than a snes. O-T, but is there someone who has an idea how they reach 256 colours on screen with the game "universe" ?

If i begin by asm, i have to learn first on amiga ? or should i begin on pc ?

And what do you thin about : AmiDevCpp ????

http://amidevcpp.amiga-world.de/inde...R_LANG=english

asm vs c and c++ what's the differences in speed or kind of effects possibles ????
I have one more question can we use demomaker to make a demo and after look the code source and see how it was done ???

this seems to be really interesting ! http://www.palbo.dk/dataskolen/maskinsprog/
And what do you think about this one ??? http://studio.code.org/ it looks strange but it's perhaps a good approach ?? ooops it seems more for my daughter !

Nekoniaow · 19 February 2015, 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by turrican3

And what do you thin about : AmiDevCpp ????

http://amidevcpp.amiga-world.de/inde...R_LANG=english

asm vs c and c++ what's the differences in speed or kind of effects possibles ????
I have one more question can we use demomaker to make a demo and after look the code source and see how it was done ???

You should really stop jumping all over the place first!

You need to learn to walk before you run, it will take experience to know when to use C and ASM and what you need now is to learn to code. Eric Chahi had years of experience writing simple stuff when he made his games. Moreover, a single person is not representative of what *you* will be able to do.

Like everyone else, the first programs you make will be ugly, slow and mostly useless. It will take time and what is most important for you to progress will be focus and persistence. These are not things you will find in ASM or C.

AmiDev seems like a good IDE. I have been wanting to look at it for some time already but I'm still at the design phase of my project so I haven't tested it yet.

I would say that starting with C on the PC would be simplest. Get Visual Studio Express for C/C++ and a C book for beginners. I'm sure there must be a C/C++ for dummies, these books are generally quite good. If you or someone finds a better book for the Amiga and an Amiga IDE then you can switch to it later but for now start with the basics because your journey will be long.

turrican3 · 19 February 2015, 15:59

ok thanks for the help, i jump everywhere because i wanted to see all possibilities... I think i'll choose asm first, if it's too hard i'll jump to C.
I understand that some will say that i'm crazy and perhaps i'm but i don't want to code for the pc first, i will enjoy more to see a color blink on the amiga 500 vs the pc... Now, i will perhaps go back to c in one month?? we'll see.

It's really great to have some support.

With your help i found a french ebook (pdf) about asm and for the moment, it's ok.

Nekoniaow · 19 February 2015, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by turrican3

ok thanks for the help, i jump everywhere because i wanted to see all possibilities... I think i'll choose asm first, if it's too hard i'll jump to C.

If you choose ASM, keep with it even if it's too hard because that's how you learn: by persisting when your brain hurts. If you switch because it's too hard, you will probably do the same for C.

The best predictor of success when learning is persistence. Grit.
If you choose one, stick with it.

Now, as I said, if you goal is to be a coder good enough to write great games, you should aim to learn to code first, assembly second. Starting with assembly restricts you in what you can do with code. Starting with C makes your choices larger and simpler. And from C it's easy to go to ASM, *very* easy.

Quote:

I understand that some will say that i'm crazy and perhaps i'm but i don't want to code for the pc first, i will enjoy more to see a color blink on the amiga 500 vs the pc... Now, i will perhaps go back to c in one month?? we'll see.

It's really great to have some support.

With your help i found a french ebook (pdf) about asm and for the moment, it's ok.

One month? It will take you more than that to be proficient in ASM.
Being able to read assembly opcodes and writing assembly that works are two different things. I could read MC6809 assembly without problem when I was 11-12 but I was unable to write more than a hundred opcodes without major issues (not having an assembler also didn't help though).

It may look like I'm trying to unfairly reduce your enthusiasm but you need to keep in mind that only persistence and effort will lead you to your goal. It took the best Amiga coders several *years* of effort to create the best games.

You have the chance to live in the C era, take advantage of it. When you are a good coder, then go to ASM where it's needed. But ASM is needed only for 20% of a program. Being a good coder is IMO a more important initial objective.

Keeping it realistic is the best way to achieve success. When you get there, you can increase your aim, but simple things first. Learn to code first, then switch to ASM. Trying to skip steps will only get you discouraged.

17 February 2015, 07:55	#1
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	a frenchy who knows assembler ! I guys is there frenchies who know assembler ?

18 February 2015, 04:27	#10
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	Thank you guys, then learning C is the 1st step ok. By where is the best to begin ??? Buying a book ?? go back to school at night ??? Which way worked for you, or whichadvice could you give me ? My goal is to give something back to the amiga. Last edited by turrican3; 18 February 2015 at 04:51.

18 February 2015, 15:21	#11
Nekoniaow Banned Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Montreal Posts: 129	I learned C using a Micro Application book for the Amiga actually. I do not think I still have the book because I didn't find it when I foraged through my Amiga stuff at my parents this Xmas but maybe you can find it on Ebay or in bookstores. That book was quite good it I can't for the hell of me remember its name! Update: I found this one: http://obligement.free.fr/articles/a...rogrammers.php It's not a Micro Application book so it's in English but it comes from the same source (Data Becker) that Micro Application was using for its French books so it's very likely to be the same one I had (except in English). It's usually available only in the USA but there's currently a package with many Abacus books on Ebay, possibly including this one. I had thought of getting my hands on that package and I could send you the C book if it's in there. I'll check it this afternoon and will post more about it. But the French edition should be available somewhere on the Internet, there's no way French people would throw their books to the bin: you probably can find it in used bookstores. Last edited by Nekoniaow; 18 February 2015 at 15:54.

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17 February 2015, 17:53	#2
matthey Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Kansas Posts: 1,284	Have you heard of Meynaf or Cosmos?

17 February 2015, 19:08	#3
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Psygore and JOTD

17 February 2015, 21:00	#4
Nekoniaow Banned Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Montreal Posts: 129	My 68k is rusty but I can speak assembler.

17 February 2015, 22:38	#5
kamelito Zone Friend Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 1,801	Cosmos, http://assembly68k.blogspot.fr/p/urls.html check it's blog there's 68k tuto done by him. There's also Lexomil http://flabrador.free.fr/index.html Kamelito

17 February 2015, 23:23	#6
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	thanks guys for the reply, i wanted to learn assembler, i said that i must code since i'm 10. i lost near 30 years !!! i have to do it now. That's why i was looking for a guy who knows by where to begin... And for the best should have been to learn with a book in french 1st but which one ?? in french for the basics, i think it will easier for me to progress if this is 1st in french, perhaps i'm wrong. What is the 1st step for a guy who want to code ?? Keep in mind that i know nothing in coding, or just a little. The amiga needs that more and more of us learn coding. But i'm speaking of myself. What's the best 1st step ?

17 February 2015, 23:26	#7
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	meynaf offcourse and jotd, i was really tired. Thanks for the links. how many times it takes to learn asm ?? I mean to do a little simple game like tetris ?? Is it better to begin with c ??

17 February 2015, 23:45	#8
heavy noodle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: europe Posts: 247	you can find the Amiga News Tech issues in PDF here : http://www.abandonware-magazines.org...ag.php?mag=191 others french coders ? hitchhikr (http://demozoo.org/sceners/10106/), Stormbringer (http://www.retro-remakes.net/index.php ) cours ASM Funx/Phoenix

18 February 2015, 23:29	#13
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	Thanks guys for all this help.

18 February 2015, 23:36	#14
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,602	I think ham and fra still insist on C!! But man, lots of frenchies have known Assembler... often they made very interesting demos and games, I have many favorites there

18 February 2015, 23:45	#15
kamelito Zone Friend Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 1,801	I'm not sure if learning C is the right move even Eric Chahi never manage to learn C for whatever reason but he did wonderful games in 6502, Z80 and 68000... Kamelito

19 February 2015, 15:59	#19
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	ok thanks for the help, i jump everywhere because i wanted to see all possibilities... I think i'll choose asm first, if it's too hard i'll jump to C. I understand that some will say that i'm crazy and perhaps i'm but i don't want to code for the pc first, i will enjoy more to see a color blink on the amiga 500 vs the pc... Now, i will perhaps go back to c in one month?? we'll see. It's really great to have some support. With your help i found a french ebook (pdf) about asm and for the moment, it's ok.

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