Games where the Atari ST version was.....

[sokolovic]

Roondar, wasn't the Amiga blitter useful to draw polygon (or fill them) ?

[Foebane]

I don't know if I mentioned it on this thread already, but I thought Shadow of the Beast on ST had a better music playback routine for the title tune. On the Amiga it sounds rather stilted, to me at least.

At the same time, the weird way that display memory is organized on the ST also gives it an advantage for raycasting. Apparently, you can use a specific instruction on the ST to allow it do CPU drawing much faster than on the Amiga (move.p). Maybe the new findings by KK/Altair show that this advantage is less pronounced than it used to be, but IIRC there's a wolvenstein like game for the Atari ST that actually runs quite decently.

When I had my ST, I noticed how Interphase on ST had a wonderful rotating and shaded cube in the loading part, whereas the Amiga didn't. I've also seen ST demos with similar shading, and noticed how they rarely show up on the Amiga (or I've missed them).

Also, Gauntlet II on Amiga (and Interphase on Amiga) had this annoying thing in the sound samples being played that started and ended with clicks on the Amiga, especially Gauntlet II. I really ought to have a look at the waveforms one day and try to work out why that happened.

[Valken]

Not sure if this was already posted...

[ Show youtube player ]

[NorthWay]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Have just read that DotC was better on ST in regard to gameplay.

BTW, anyone know how DotC II compared to the ST version?

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by NorthWay

BTW, anyone know how DotC II compared to the ST version?

Is Defender of the Crown II even on the ST?

Not according to HOL; and as far as I'm aware, a CD32 exclusive.

[Foebane]

Wasn't Dungeon Master always lauded as being superior on the ST, originating on that machine as it did?

[roondar]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Roondar, wasn't the Amiga blitter useful to draw polygon (or fill them) ?

You can indeed use the Blitter to fill polygons. But it's not that easy to get it to consistently outperform a CPU based algorithm. Usually there are various situations in which CPU only is faster than using Blitter. There's been several threads about this on EAB and the overall conclusion seems to be that CPU based usually is at least comparable to a Blitter based approach and scales up to faster systems much better.

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by Foebane

Wasn't Dungeon Master always lauded as being superior on the ST, originating on that machine as it did?

I read that Amiga version is somewhat superior, because it uses 1MB mem to store levels so you can walk up/down without loading, plus some minor other fx details are supposed to be better.

So it's like with DotC, being the lead platform is not always better.

I must say, ST being more efficient in 3D is quite a surprise to me. I always assumed that Amiga was more powerful on all fronts. I susppose it only applies to ST vs A500, not A1200 though?

[roondar]

Yes, I'm talking only about A500 vs ST here. The A1200 should be (much) faster at 3D than either the ST or STE - it has a 32 bit bus to memory and a faster CPU so it can push many more pixels. Not so much vs the Falcon.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

I read that Amiga version is somewhat superior, because it uses 1MB mem to store levels so you can walk up/down without loading, plus some minor other fx details are supposed to be better.

So it's like with DotC, being the lead platform is not always better.

I must say, ST being more efficient in 3D is quite a surprise to me. I always assumed that Amiga was more powerful on all fronts. I susppose it only applies to ST vs A500, not A1200 though?

Oh, OK, didn't know that about DM.

Yeah, the ST, for brute force and clock speed, is slightly faster for 3D, but I'm sure the Amiga can use the Blitter to do a lot of the work, IF the 3D code is written to take advantage of it.

[roondar]

Yeah, but as it turns out that is quite tricky if you have multiple objects of multiple sizes. Apparently it works quite well to draw single big objects (such as that nearly fullscreen sub-pixel accurate rotating cube demo that was spread around a few years ago), but less so if you have many objects of various sizes.

[Orcish75]

Certainly for the vast majority of games the Amiga sound was a lot better, but for me, I think the sound in Defender of the Crown was better on the ST. It just made better use of the Yamaha chip compared to what the Paula was capable of. The intro is tinny and had poor sample selection in the Amiga version, The ST version just sounds meatier and fuller. (I'm playing both versions through a reasonable AVR system, not the piddly little speakers on the TV)

Platoon is another game where the soundtracks are quite similar, but the Amiga version is definitely meatier and more enjoyable.

The ST demo scene has put some reasonably good lipstick on the Yamaha pig, with some of the chip tunes sounding pretty decent considering it's limitations.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by roondar

Yeah, but as it turns out that is quite tricky if you have multiple objects of multiple sizes. Apparently it works quite well to draw single big objects (such as that nearly fullscreen sub-pixel accurate rotating cube demo that was spread around a few years ago), but less so if you have many objects of various sizes.

I think the Amiga version of Frontier use the blitter... I'm looking where I saw that, it was in an interview of David Braben and he was saying IIRC that was an advantage for the A500 but not for the A1200. A "real" AGA version would have been faster.

EDIT : found where Braben was saying that. In the review of november 93 in the One P61. Not an interview but a quote.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by Orcish75

Certainly for the vast majority of games the Amiga sound was a lot better, but for me, I think the sound in Defender of the Crown was better on the ST. It just made better use of the Yamaha chip compared to what the Paula was capable of. The intro is tinny and had poor sample selection in the Amiga version, The ST version just sounds meatier and fuller. (I'm playing both versions through a reasonable AVR system, not the piddly little speakers on the TV)

Platoon is another game where the soundtracks are quite similar, but the Amiga version is definitely meatier and more enjoyable.

The ST demo scene has put some reasonably good lipstick on the Yamaha pig, with some of the chip tunes sounding pretty decent considering it's limitations.

Sorry, but in my humble estimation, Yamaha will never, EVER, sound as good as Paula. I really ought to make a separate thread on this one day, put the one-sided debate to rest once and for all.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Foebane

Sorry, but in my humble estimation, Yamaha will never, EVER, sound as good as Paula. I really ought to make a separate thread on this one day, put the one-sided debate to rest once and for all.

You'd be quite wrong about that, plenty of music on the ST sounds better than the Amiga version.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by Foebane

Sorry, but in my humble estimation, Yamaha will never, EVER, sound as good as Paula. I really ought to make a separate thread on this one day, put the one-sided debate to rest once and for all.

Ok for the 2149. But for the YM2151, there's no fight with Paula. the YM2151 has absolutely fabulous musics that Paula just could not replicate (or you need an amiga with tons of memory).

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Foebane

I don't know if I mentioned it on this thread already, but I thought Shadow of the Beast on ST had a better music playback routine for the title tune. On the Amiga it sounds rather stilted, to me at least.

Yeah, not quite sure how you remembered that. David Whittaker directly sampled lots of the instruments for Amiga Beast from a Korg M1 Synthesiser, and I remember an advert by Korg at the time in the music press that linked Amiga Beast to their synthesiser, so they must have been pretty happy with the results.

The ST version is the one that suffers from lack of fadings on instruments, seeming to just cut, the sounds are muffled and its not a patch on the Amiga version.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Ok for the 2149. But for the YM2151, there's no fight with Paula. the YM2151 has absolutely fabulous musics that Paula just could not replicate (or you need an amiga with tons of memory).

I mean the chip in the ST.

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Yeah, not quite sure how you remembered that. David Whittaker directly sampled lots of the instruments for Amiga Beast from a Korg M1 Synthesiser, and I remember an advert by Korg at the time in the music press that linked Amiga Beast to their synthesiser, so they must have been pretty happy with the results.

The ST version is the one that suffers from lack of fadings on instruments, seeming to just cut, the sounds are muffled and its not a patch on the Amiga version.

I'm not saying the samples are better on the ST, just the timing seems to be. That's how my ears perceived it, anyway.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Foebane

I mean the chip in the ST.



I'm not saying the samples are better on the ST, just the timing seems to be. That's how my ears perceived it, anyway.

I dont see how the timing can be "better" when the Amiga version is the original.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

I dont see how the timing can be "better" when the Amiga version is the original.

As I said, that's how I perceived it, like the playback routine wasn't hitting the precise beat of a metronome.