PPC Emulation

Valken · 09 April 2009, 09:23

To keep other threads from closing:

What: PPC cpu emulation on top of existing WinUAE (cpu selectable)

Why: So we can run OS4.x + , MorphOS and AROS (ppc native) and still have the best classic Amiga core running old school software in one "application" or setup.

I (and probably most users) can't afford all the desktop space for a PPC Amiga with my A1000, A3000 and 3 PCs, thus wold rather invest more into current x86 PC to run best of both worlds - updated Native x86 software and emulate the rest of the hardware.

Just think: Windows XP or 7, MacOS X and AOS4.x all running on one machine with multicore! Best of all worlds!

Not expecting to replace WinUAE but more of an extension of it or perhaps a seperate fork to test feasibility. There are already other PPC JIT emulators out there but more for Mac emulation than anything else, just as PearPC.

keropi · 09 April 2009, 10:12

this has been discussed a trillion times already... unless YOU can code that kind of ppc support, the answer is no. Noone bothers and with good reason too

TCD · 09 April 2009, 10:31

Here are some for your reading pleasure

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=35135
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=33886
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=32739
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=27770
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=24309

Maybe it's an idea to merge the whole lot

AmigaFriend · 09 April 2009, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Maybe it's an idea to merge the whole lot

And make it a sticky

Retro1234 · 09 April 2009, 13:03

Combining two emulators seems a big task.
How does the boot process of os4 classic work?
Someone will get MorphOs and os4 running under PearPc or Qemu

Predabot · 09 April 2009, 14:19

Wouldn't it be better for someone to strip down the PearPC emu, and then adapt it for Amiga PPC emulation and Amiga OS4 (and similar systems) in perticular?

I have this idea regarding the two EMU's working together btw... I'm sure someone's heard about PinMame and VPinball, right? Well, there we have two programs, wherein one is an Emulator, working very closely together. I think all that connects the two, is a DLL-file and a com-object.

coze · 09 April 2009, 14:55

it's not so easy. it's not just PPC emulation, but specific blizzard/cyberstorm hardware emulation where all nasty stuff like context switching comes into play, lots of headaches and not worth it IMHO.

Amiga1992 · 09 April 2009, 18:54

A useless nightmare.
Besides the (alleged, I don't see any) advantage of MorphOS and OS4 usage, what else is there that would justify such a daunting task?

I hear the crickets...

Retro-Nerd · 09 April 2009, 18:57

I have no clue. Playing old PC games, ported to Amiga PPC and running them on a PC in Amiga PPC emulation?

Valken · 09 April 2009, 20:37

I'm not a software engineer so do not know all the delicate details but thanks for all of the other threads for reading.

I was reading up on OS4/MorphOs and how it had to count on the older UAE core to run classic programs, but was not as far along as WinUAE in that aspect. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

So my idea was to ADD a PPC emulation layer onto WinUAE to get it to run OS4/MorphOS while keeping the already optimized winUAE core to run classic programs. Does this make sense?

One emulator to run OS4 with winuae built in to run old school programs.

I didn't mean to combine the two emulators but more like to look at the PPC JIT CPU emulation code for reference and add that to WinUAE as a start.

Of course, we would need a PPC migga bios to see what else we need to emulate but most of the "hardware" emulation is already in winuae: RTG, AGA, ECS, DirectX sound and graphics redirection, mouse, KB, network, TCP/IP stack redirection, etc....

There are actually a small but growing amount of apps for OS4.x/MorphOS that may be of interest to classic Amiga users but who do not want to invest all the money into "old" hardware.

Retro-Nerd · 09 April 2009, 21:02

You want to run an OS4/PPC emulator which runs an UAE emulator inside? Very odd.

Quote:

There are actually a small but growing amount of apps for OS4.x/MorphOS that may be of interest to classic Amiga users but who do not want to invest all the money into "old" hardware.

There are enough good apps and tools for the PC. Why should i use some OS4 apps/tools in emulation? Makes no sense imho.

Amiga1992 · 09 April 2009, 21:06

It has been explained to you in the posts above, particularly Coze's post, that this is not as trivial or easy as it sounds, and that all the effort is HARDLY worth anything.

Of course if you feel so strongly about this, you should consider start coding!

Rabbit80 · 09 April 2009, 21:10

For the sake of presevation, PPC emulation built into WinUAE would be good.. These boards are gradually dying

TCD · 09 April 2009, 21:17

Since WinUAE is open source and Toni is not interested -> Do it yourself (which was said by keropi and Akira in this very thread before). If noone who is capable of doing it is interested there might be a reason...

HenryCase · 10 April 2009, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Someone will get MorphOs and os4 running under PearPc or Qemu

MorphOS already runs under QEMU:
http://bigfoot.morphos-team.net/test/qemu.png
However, it's just available to MorphOS developers at the moment.

AmigaFriend · 10 April 2009, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

I have no clue. Playing old PC games, ported to Amiga PPC and running them on a PC in Amiga PPC emulation?

Ah this is very interesting. Why not play them on the PC after all?

TCD · 10 April 2009, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpect

Why not play them on the PC after all?

I think that was Retros point here

AmigaFriend · 10 April 2009, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

I think that was Retros point here

Exactly.

Apologies to Retro and a kick for me for not reading properly.

Predabot · 10 April 2009, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by HenryCase

MorphOS already runs under QEMU:
http://bigfoot.morphos-team.net/test/qemu.png
However, it's just available to MorphOS developers at the moment.

VERY interesting!

That would make it possible to build something like an Amithlon, now wouldn't it? With a stripped-down Linux running a stripped-down QEMU and loading it straight after the boot-sequence. Then you would be able to put AOS4 and Aros on that!

In theory, this could take up less resources than running Aros from a VirtualMachine, right?

Retro1234 · 10 April 2009, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predabot

VERY interesting!

That would make it possible to build something like an Amithlon, now wouldn't it? With a stripped-down Linux running a stripped-down QEMU and loading it straight after the boot-sequence. Then you would be able to put AOS4 and Aros on that!

In theory, this could take up less resources than running Aros from a VirtualMachine, right?

Thats ambitious

- Ive only run MacOS under PearPc and its not that fast. Aros under VirtualPc is native Speed.

09 April 2009, 09:23	#1
Valken Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Amiga Posts: 465	PPC Emulation To keep other threads from closing: What: PPC cpu emulation on top of existing WinUAE (cpu selectable) Why: So we can run OS4.x + , MorphOS and AROS (ppc native) and still have the best classic Amiga core running old school software in one "application" or setup. I (and probably most users) can't afford all the desktop space for a PPC Amiga with my A1000, A3000 and 3 PCs, thus wold rather invest more into current x86 PC to run best of both worlds - updated Native x86 software and emulate the rest of the hardware. Just think: Windows XP or 7, MacOS X and AOS4.x all running on one machine with multicore! Best of all worlds! Not expecting to replace WinUAE but more of an extension of it or perhaps a seperate fork to test feasibility. There are already other PPC JIT emulators out there but more for Mac emulation than anything else, just as PearPC.

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09 April 2009, 10:12	#2
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	this has been discussed a trillion times already... unless YOU can code that kind of ppc support, the answer is no. Noone bothers and with good reason too

09 April 2009, 10:31	#3
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,921	Here are some for your reading pleasure http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=35135 http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=33886 http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=32739 http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=27770 http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=24309 Maybe it's an idea to merge the whole lot

09 April 2009, 13:03	#5
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,808	Combining two emulators seems a big task. How does the boot process of os4 classic work? Someone will get MorphOs and os4 running under PearPc or Qemu

09 April 2009, 14:19	#6
Predabot Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Swedun' Posts: 397	Wouldn't it be better for someone to strip down the PearPC emu, and then adapt it for Amiga PPC emulation and Amiga OS4 (and similar systems) in perticular? I have this idea regarding the two EMU's working together btw... I'm sure someone's heard about PinMame and VPinball, right? Well, there we have two programs, wherein one is an Emulator, working very closely together. I think all that connects the two, is a DLL-file and a com-object.

09 April 2009, 14:55	#7
coze hastala vista winny vista Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mt fuji Age: 46 Posts: 1,335	it's not so easy. it's not just PPC emulation, but specific blizzard/cyberstorm hardware emulation where all nasty stuff like context switching comes into play, lots of headaches and not worth it IMHO.

09 April 2009, 18:54	#8
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,646	A useless nightmare. Besides the (alleged, I don't see any) advantage of MorphOS and OS4 usage, what else is there that would justify such a daunting task? I hear the crickets...

09 April 2009, 18:57	#9
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,454	I have no clue. Playing old PC games, ported to Amiga PPC and running them on a PC in Amiga PPC emulation?

09 April 2009, 20:37	#10
Valken Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Amiga Posts: 465	I'm not a software engineer so do not know all the delicate details but thanks for all of the other threads for reading. I was reading up on OS4/MorphOs and how it had to count on the older UAE core to run classic programs, but was not as far along as WinUAE in that aspect. Correct me if I'm wrong here. So my idea was to ADD a PPC emulation layer onto WinUAE to get it to run OS4/MorphOS while keeping the already optimized winUAE core to run classic programs. Does this make sense? One emulator to run OS4 with winuae built in to run old school programs. I didn't mean to combine the two emulators but more like to look at the PPC JIT CPU emulation code for reference and add that to WinUAE as a start. Of course, we would need a PPC migga bios to see what else we need to emulate but most of the "hardware" emulation is already in winuae: RTG, AGA, ECS, DirectX sound and graphics redirection, mouse, KB, network, TCP/IP stack redirection, etc.... There are actually a small but growing amount of apps for OS4.x/MorphOS that may be of interest to classic Amiga users but who do not want to invest all the money into "old" hardware.

09 April 2009, 21:06	#12
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,646	It has been explained to you in the posts above, particularly Coze's post, that this is not as trivial or easy as it sounds, and that all the effort is HARDLY worth anything. Of course if you feel so strongly about this, you should consider start coding!

09 April 2009, 21:10	#13
Rabbit80 Its hard being famous! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Gateway to the dales, UK Age: 44 Posts: 633	For the sake of presevation, PPC emulation built into WinUAE would be good.. These boards are gradually dying

09 April 2009, 21:17	#14
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,921	Since WinUAE is open source and Toni is not interested -> Do it yourself (which was said by keropi and Akira in this very thread before). If noone who is capable of doing it is interested there might be a reason...

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