I am making a racing game, advice/help welcome.

[skateblind]

I am making a top-down or isometric F1 racing game. I was wondering if anybody else has done this before?

I have created a racing game before, but I found skidding difficult to emulate/implement, any tips or ideas?

I also would like some help on how to handle the AI of the opponents. I am thinking of just drawing a racing line around the track and make the cars stay as close to that line as possible. How close they stick to that line will depend on the car they are driving and their own ability. I would like to know of any other ways I could handle the AI though, because I think my method will be CPU intensive.

Anyone know or have of any racing track tiles I can have a look at to create my own tiles? Maybe someone could make me some simple tiles, because making some tiles that can be re-used to create a variety of tracks if pretty difficult it seems. I would prefer the tiles to be in 32X32 pixels, but wouldn't mind 16X16 pixels.

Thanks!

[coze]

wow, that's cool ! I like top down racing games !

is this for Amiga ?

PS : sorry for non helpful message, but it will at least bump the thread and get more attention

[skateblind]

Originally Posted by coze

wow, that's cool ! I like top down racing games !

is this for Amiga ?

PS : sorry for non helpful message, but it will at least bump the thread and get more attention

It will be for the Amiga, hence me posting it here at the English Amiga Board.

It will be in similar vain to Indy Heat, but with management options.

[Shoonay]

yay! *insert cheerleading smilie here*

EDITED: double yay!

[FOL]

Originally Posted by skateblind

hence me posting it here at the English Amiga Board.

lol, you couldnt resist, .

[jotd]

I've remade Supercars in Java, and I have ideas about what to do what not to do, for the circuit and for the AI.

AI: tough topic. I have chosen the easy way: make the opponents follow a curve made of control points. The difficulty is to follow the line, but without going backwards if you "missed" a point. The other difficulty is: the computer car suddenly aims for the closest point in distance, but there's a wall between the car and the point: bumps in the wall forever, unless you've got some way to detect or (better) to avoid it.

Even tougher: make the circuit "data" available to the opponents and let them drive just like a human: accelerate, skid, brake, overtake. Some did this, but this is the hard way.

skidding: not that hard. Consider the car inertia, and consider that when you turn the wheels, the previous speed and direction is still active to decide whether to make the car turn neatly, to skid lightly, or to skid hard with tyre screeching.

In a general way, the "tunnel effect" is a nightmare. You cross lines but you don't notice since dt is too important at this moment (because of a system slowdown for instance) => you have to check many points or perform rectangle intersections.

For the circuit boundaries I've chosen a vectorial approach but I'd hardly recommend it because even if it seems simpler and avoids mask definition, it's hell to maintain, CPU greedy and prone to bugs. Better use circuit masks (another picture in "infrared" which contains boundaries, slopes, and all logical data encoded in specific colors): this is the fastest and safest way.

Of course, I'm not omniscient and there could be other nice tricks to get through. You can check my source code and also (maybe better) the one of an excellent racer called Generally.

Good luck with your project.

[Anemos]

good luck skate

[Hungry Horace]

some great food for thought from Jean-Francois there.

Have you managed to find a volenteer to help with the graphics, in a Sensible Software style?

[Sensi]

Originally Posted by skateblind

I am thinking of just drawing a racing line around the track and make the cars stay as close to that line as possible. How close they stick to that line will depend on the car they are driving and their own ability.

I think thats ideal, its very similar to F1GP and F1GP 2.

A suggestion: add an editor for editing number of cars, their main and secondary colors, team names, drivers names plus HP power and drivers skills (like in F1GP or F1GP2 editors) .

Good luck with this, I am curious

[frikilokooo]

@skateblind

I see your avatar,I guess it will be programmed in AMOS PRO.I think possible good outcome,there are a few AMOS precedents:

Hyperace :a few circuits only and annoying collisions but not bad at all.

Ford Capri Challenge : I love the crappy graphics so its only flaw is the excessive difficulty,however very nice game.Even it has different vehicles!

Road To Hell : some time ago that I didn't play it and my HD version refuses to work at the moment but I remember that it has multi-directional scroll and bad adjustment of difficulty.

Last Lap : no AMOS game,maybe created in Blitz and Basic but interesting anyway.Very easy game in this case.

IMO the key of racing-overhead games is the difficulty,or they are impossible:SuperSkidmarks,TurboTrax...or very very easy:Max Rally or Nitro.I think you have to introduce strategic elements to achieve an addictive game,suggestions:

Weapons:rockets,oil stains...avoid rival weapons and use the weapons themselves add complexity.

Damage : penalize shocks declining the car speed,with multiple shocks the victory is impossible.

Car handling : you must create your own style of control.

The most overhead-racing are very easy to handle,that is a error.Play ATR(the best overhead-racing ever IMO) and enjoy the drifting.I would like a control like the Ridge Race game(NAMCO) ie brake and immediately accelerate to get the drift.

I don't have time to continue writing now.Good luck in your project

[skateblind]

Thanks everyone for the comments and advice.

JOTD: Thank you for the help, that is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. Expect me to hassle you in a couple of weeks when I get stuck somewhere.

Frikilokoo: Thanks for the example games, I will take a closer look at them tonight. There will be no weapons in this version of the game because the goal is for it to be a F1 Management game with the option to control you car if you want to, like SWOS or Speedball 2. Maybe once the game has been finished I will look into creating a more arcade version of the game, but it won't be for a long time.

--------------------

We are looking for someone to draw a F1 car for us in an isometric point of view for use in the game. If you think you can do this then get in contact with me please.
It is not essential for the meantime, but if there is anyone who thinks they can draw some decent looking track tiles which can be used to make a variety of decent race tracks, then please get in contact with me or Horace.
Basically, we just want an artist to give us a hand with the project.

SENSI: Like I said before, this is a F1 management game, so all of what you asked for will be part of the game from the start.

[Hungry Horace]

everything Frikilokoo said is true. except saying that ATR is a good game.

best example in gameplay for me (certainly with this style) is Indy Heat.

Originally Posted by frikilokooo

@skateblind

I see your avatar,I guess it will be programmed in AMOS PRO.I think possible good outcome,there are a few AMOS precedents:

Hyperace :a few circuits only and annoying collisions but not bad at all.

Ford Capri Challenge : I love the crappy graphics so its only flaw is the excessive difficulty,however very nice game.Even it has different vehicles!

Road To Hell : some time ago that I didn't play it and my HD version refuses to work at the moment but I remember that it has multi-directional scroll and bad adjustment of difficulty.

Last Lap : no AMOS game,maybe created in Blitz and Basic but interesting anyway.Very easy game in this case.

IMO the key of racing-overhead games is the difficulty,or they are impossible:SuperSkidmarks,TurboTrax...or very very easy:Max Rally or Nitro.I think you have to introduce strategic elements to achieve an addictive game,suggestions:

Weapons:rockets,oil stains...avoid rival weapons and use the weapons themselves add complexity.

Damage : penalize shocks declining the car speed,with multiple shocks the victory is impossible.

Car handling : you must create your own style of control.

The most overhead-racing are very easy to handle,that is a error.Play ATR(the best overhead-racing ever IMO) and enjoy the drifting.I would like a control like the Ridge Race game(NAMCO) ie brake and immediately accelerate to get the drift.

I don't have time to continue writing now.Good luck in your project

Hi there

Just joined this site, after randomly googling 'Ford Capri Challenge', since I actually wrote the game, starting in 1994! (finished around 1998 IIRC)

Interested to see it crop up on that joystick thingy's games collection.

Glad someone enjoyed playing it! The 'crappy' car graphics were alas my responsibility but the backgrounds were done by a friend of mine (he took AGES doing them, probably why the game took so long to finish)

We had HUGE fun writing (and playing it), especially doing the sound samples, smashing panes of glass and dropping Capri exhaust systems to get an authentic 'clang' noise. Great days.

In answer to the poster, the computer cars do indeed follow 'waypoints' or lines of invisible dots round the course, once the car has reached the current target 'dot' it then switches to targeting the next one and so on, of course its progress can be altered by ramming them, thats why they sometimes drive round in loops - they're trying to find the next dot but they have to 'drive' to it as a proper car would.

cheers all!

[frikilokooo]

@ mike1971

You have done a good job there.I like that you can configure many things in the game.I got it in my little PD games collection

[Photon]

Advice:

1) Finish the entire game with dummy graphics first. If it's fun with black and white blocks, it's fun with nice graphics
2) Spend most of the coding on the car control. After all, that's what the player will be doing 90% of the time
3) To get competitors of different skill, make the perfect driver AI (only deviates from the optimal path to avoid rams & jams perfectly) and then make a deviance factor and jam avoidance factor that you can randomize from 0 to 1, 1 being perfect. At any point in time, if the rnd() falls within the min and max set for the AI car, that AI driver shines! And the other way round allows for occasional mistakes even for the best AI driver.

Hope this helps

[skateblind]

Originally Posted by Photon

Advice:

1) Finish the entire game with dummy graphics first. If it's fun with black and white blocks, it's fun with nice graphics
2) Spend most of the coding on the car control. After all, that's what the player will be doing 90% of the time
3) To get competitors of different skill, make the perfect driver AI (only deviates from the optimal path to avoid rams & jams perfectly) and then make a deviance factor and jam avoidance factor that you can randomize from 0 to 1, 1 being perfect. At any point in time, if the rnd() falls within the min and max set for the AI car, that AI driver shines! And the other way round allows for occasional mistakes even for the best AI driver.

Hope this helps

Thanks Photon.

We have managed to find some good looking place holder graphics, so it means we can now concentrate on getting the car movement/handling down. I will be trying what you said about making the perfect AI driver, but we want the skills of each driver to be adjustable based on certain stats, rather than just 1/0 randomness.

Thanks again!

[Photon]

Well, you randomize and use the factors to bound the randomization. The fixed factors from 0 to 1 or 0 to 255, whatever, set the limits for how bad mistakes and perfect dodging can be achieved, respectively. AI is very often done this way, you make the perfect enemy and then set factors for the skill of each individual enemy.

The reason for using simple graphics for coding the core of the game is to see bugs more clearly and to not focus on the bells and whistles until you after playtesting and fine-tuning know that you have a game that has high playability. The rest is easy after that.

[skateblind]

Originally Posted by Photon

Well, you randomize and use the factors to bound the randomization. The fixed factors from 0 to 1 or 0 to 255, whatever, set the limits for how bad mistakes and perfect dodging can be achieved, respectively. AI is very often done this way, you make the perfect enemy and then set factors for the skill of each individual enemy.

The reason for using simple graphics for coding the core of the game is to see bugs more clearly and to not focus on the bells and whistles until you after playtesting and fine-tuning know that you have a game that has high playability. The rest is easy after that.

I see what you mean now, of course we will be using some randomness, since I cannot think of another way to get the AI to make 'mistakes'. Like I said before, we already have some decent placeholders, all I need to do now is create a fun game.