New project for the benefit of all classic computing!

[diablothe2nd]

definitely another +1 for a new line of 060's akin to the Cyberstorm/Blizzard cards.

These cards are getting rarer than hens teeth and costing more and more to get hold of one. I should know, as my mrs bought me a 66/330mhz BPPC for my 30th this year

if we can get 1260 with user adjustable timings (for those with scsi etc or for those wanting just plain raw horsepower) then all the better.

perhaps to keep initial costs down both for you and us, you could have any additional stuff like ppc/sata/usb as a modular socket we can just plug later purchased stuff into? also means if one of these fail we can just order a replacement for that bit instead of having to send the whole board back for repair.

[Twiggy]

+1 for something for the CD32.

[TheRogue]

Originally Posted by diablothe2nd

definitely another +1 for a new line of 060's akin to the Cyberstorm/Blizzard cards.

These cards are getting rarer than hens teeth and costing more and more to get hold of one. I should know, as my mrs bought me a 66/330mhz BPPC for my 30th this year

if we can get 1260 with user adjustable timings (for those with scsi etc or for those wanting just plain raw horsepower) then all the better.

perhaps to keep initial costs down both for you and us, you could have any additional stuff like ppc/sata/usb as a modular socket we can just plug later purchased stuff into? also means if one of these fail we can just order a replacement for that bit instead of having to send the whole board back for repair.

It's definitely a good idea! It's too early to say how things like that will be dealt with, but your idea definitely makes a lot of sense! I will keep you guys posted as things develop. I'm really busy today running around for this project and other things, back tomorrow for full proper replies to everything! In the meantime keep those comments and suggestions coming!

[roy bates]

hello therogue.


would you be able to manufactor 64 pin simms for the gvp,its just a 2 layer board right?(if of course you could get the drams)in 1 and 4 mbs flavours.or even an adaptor to use the 72 pin equivelants.

also what about adaptors for zip ram sockets? so peaple with these can use 72 pin standard ram in in there place.

Hi all, this is my first post here

Just some ideas for Amiga 500:

-Ethernet cards for amigas in general are ultraexpensive and rare. I would love to see an ethernet card for the A500 expansion slot (i.e. Hydra), and also for Zorro amigas (no more 180 EUR for a simple&18 years old 10 Mbit card on ebay).

-Some ZII adapter with passthrough connector for the side expansion would be nice also: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/busconverter

-Full 68030 or 020 accelerator with a couple of slots for simm memory and fallback 68000 mode.

Greetings and good luck with your project!

[majsta]

I must confirm everything Jens has said. If I just listened him from the start I wouldn't waste so much time. There is no easy start and there are certain procedures you need to follow. Before using Altium Designer I was trying to use every single program existed and there it was just waste of time. I didn't wanted to use that software because it seems so complicated for me but after few days I just find out that I have every tools in single package and it is worthy to spend some time to learn how to use it. Regarding prototype boards, there is no way to build it from scratch it takes time and you just can't get everything working in proper order. Try to imagine that you need to solder 1000 of "green" wires by hand and then to track what's wrong. It is easier to build PCB prototype for just 10 USD or so every 30 days and to correct some errors in process of building next prototype. But there is one thing that I can't agree with Jens, for projects like this you don't need lot of money, there are certain strategies you can use to start every project and to save lot of money. You can create test equipment bu your own, you can even find PCB production for free or order free parts for prototyping.You are forgetting most important think in this, there are lot of people who are in high positions in major electrical companies who remember Amiga and your nostalgic approach can open the door in their hart to help you. So I received most of the parts for free, significant money donations, support regarding every single device I m using. So money for this kind of projects is no object you just have to prepare yourself for hard work 10 or more hours per day.

[Schoenfeld]

OK, this is the point where I have to give a word of warning: If someone who hasn't come forward with *any* kind of hardware design before is telling you that an 060 design is "definitely planned", you should not set your hopes too high. It's more than just PCB routing involved in such a development.

TheRogue:
You're losing credibility in less than "one second" if you don't come forward with something that has at least a tenth of the complexity of an accelerator. So far, there's three people left in the Amiga market who are capable of grasping the complexity of such a project. Name one, only one project and show a prototype, otherwise step back from promises like "I'll make an accelerator". As it stands right now, you're creating false hope.

Everyone else: Watch this closely! Promises have been made, hardly a single thing was refused as "too complex", although maximum-complexity things have been requested. This is fishy at best, as long as the person behind it has never come forward with *any* kind of hardware design. As it stands right now, this is yet another Oliver Hannaford-Day or Adam Kowalczyk.

Jens

[Amiga1992]

I don't get it, though. Why do people want so much an 060? Except for the few Amiga demos that get released each year that fully use it, there's not much else you can do with them. I know I'd want one if I could pay one, but the price tag is ridiculous and totally not worth it for me. I get as much performance as I want off my 030 already.

Instead, efforts should be made on making better, more affordable accelerators (Jens is covering that) and products for machines that are right now a bit unattended, like A500 or CD32.

[dJOS]

Originally Posted by Akira

I don't get it, though. Why do people want so much an 060? Except for the few Amiga demos that get released each year that fully use it, there's not much else you can do with them. I know I'd want one if I could pay one, but the price tag is ridiculous and totally not worth it for me. I get as much performance as I want off my 030 already.

Instead, efforts should be made on making better, more affordable accelerators (Jens is covering that) and products for machines that are right now a bit unattended, like A500 or CD32.

Simple, the 060 is the last word in 68k development and combines all the 68k technologies into a single chip, MMU, FPU and higher clock speeds.

As they say, do something right and you only need do it once.

[NovaCoder]

Originally Posted by Akira

I don't get it, though. Why do people want so much an 060? Except for the few Amiga demos that get released each year that fully use it, there's not much else you can do with them. I know I'd want one if I could pay one, but the price tag is ridiculous and totally not worth it for me. I get as much performance as I want off my 030 already.

Yes 030's are great for classic AGA machines (esp the ACA 56Mhz ones) but the 060 was the fastest 68k CPU ever and it would be so cool to see one pushed to the max by a modern board design.

[Amiga1992]

Ok, you get the modern board design and all that. Then, what?
As it is the Amiga scene is pretty dead, not even the demoscene is very active. You wouldn't get anything developed for the fantastic new 060 board.

Meanwhile I see a product like the 1541Ultimate which is being actively used to push the limits of the C64 and used in a scene which is HIGHLY active. It really makes me sad how under appreciated the Amiga is being, it has a load of potential to do so much more than what it already did. We're pretty much stuck in time

I feel like we have a lot of super powerful hardware being developed, but nothing to use it with and, as such, wasting it. An Amiga with an ACA accelerator, USB, an Indivision and what not, feels totally wasted just to play old games through WHDLoad.

If it wasn't by people the few that still push it software-wise (Toni, Mrs. Beanbag, PeterK, Britelite, etc) there wouldn't be anything at all to look forward to regarding the Amiga and in many cases they are focusing on even more restricted hardware, because they realize the limits have barely been broken.

But I digress now!

[britelite]

Originally Posted by Akira

Meanwhile I see a product like the 1541Ultimate which is being actively used to push the limits of the C64 and used in a scene which is HIGHLY active.

The 1541-Ultimate is being actively used, but mainly as an 1541 replacement. There's hardly any software that actually require or make real use of it, so it's not being used to "push the limits"

[Amiga1992]

It's a 1541 replacement plus reu plus cart emulator plus ide interface plus...
Stuff like BluREU wasn't really made back when a very select few had 1764s or 1750s :P

The main problem is still lack of activity in development and that's very sad. I am glad we have you though.

[kamelito]

@Jens
3 so far, Thomas Hirsh, Mike J and yourself I suppose, can you explain why you don't produce a 060 card knowing that you'll sell a lot if the price is right?

Kamelito

[UberFreak]

@Akira:

There are only a handful of demos that require anything beyond a base C64.
That is why I love the C64 scene so much, you can just buy yourself a cheap C64 + drive and run 99.9% of the software base.

With Amiga, unless you're only interested in 80's software, you must expand the system.
I had to buy an 060 accelerator to enjoy Amiga demos from the past 10 or so years, that's quite an investment just to run demos, but I don't regret it for a second

Also, these days all the big quality productions are released only in parties, unlike the old days, so release frequency depends on the number of parties...
Its something we have to live with I guess.

[Amiga1992]

But imagine as you just clearly said, that if all stuff on C64 runs on stock hardware, how much room there is on the stock Amigas to work with. Putting efforts on 060s that few have is a bit weird.

[Jack Burton]

I have been dreaming of an Amiga FM audio card for more than a decade. My MSX2+ has a 2-op YM2413 and I love it ! Now if a FM card could be made for the Amiga clockport, it would be a dream come true !

My choice would go toward the 4-op FM synth YM2151 as this chip has been massively used in the arcade coin-op games in the 80's and 90's so you can find a lot of music for it. I have a collection of several thousand tunes in .mdx format (japanese X68000 computer audio format) for the YM2151.

The YM2151 is quite cheap nowadays (it sells for 3.50 $ on ebay) so I think it could be quite an affordable card, and maybe not so complex as a 060 accelerator to design !

[diablothe2nd]

nice idea Jack! you actually gave me another idea

we in the UK have now completely finished our digital switchover. all analogue broadcasting television has stopped, so we only have digitial tv (still have fm radio though)

there doesn't seem to be any word on drivers for pci digital tv tuners coming out for mediator users. is this down to a hardware issue or driver issue? if it's hardware, then that's definitely a void that'll need filling

[dJOS]

Originally Posted by Akira

But imagine as you just clearly said, that if all stuff on C64 runs on stock hardware, how much room there is on the stock Amigas to work with. Putting efforts on 060s that few have is a bit weird.

But if an affordable 060 board was released for the 1000/500/2000 etc then folk would take advantage of it IMO.

This chip really is the pinnacle of the 68k world and I personally would luv to be able to put one in one of my 500's just for PovRay and I know PovRay is a millions times faster on my quad core pc but that's not the point, my Amiga is a fun computer to use, my pc is just a boring appliance!

@Jens, I doubt that Rogue is going to start off with an 060 board but he did call for ideas and so folk are giving them to him. You could learn from that! Take your aca500 for example, that thing is a joke, if you want to make an adapter so folk can put your aca12xx products into 500's then just do that! but dont insult 500 owners by building a half a$$ed board with a redundant CPU and a pathetic amount of ram! Make a genuine adapter that only has truIDE and maybe USB and Ethernet, it'll be far cheaper and use less power making your exp500 (name intentional, feel free to use it if you come to your senses) wildly popular and leading to more sales of your aca12xx boards.

[NovaCoder]

Originally Posted by Akira

Ok, you get the modern board design and all that. Then, what?
As it is the Amiga scene is pretty dead, not even the demoscene is very active. You wouldn't get anything developed for the fantastic new 060 board.

Some interesting new 060 software has been developed recently and more is on the way

There's also the interesting option of developing an 060 specific OS (either using AROS 68k or patching the existing libraries).