List of 2-button joysticks

[ShenLong]

..
I used sega mastersystem gamepads then genesis gamepads. I also used a gravispad. Before those I have the Epyx 500 ergonomic clicky handstick pictured earlier in this thread.

Currently, I use a wired XBox360 gamepad for some PC and Amiga emulation. I prefer mouse&keyboard when possible.

[Photon]

Request for adapters from DB9 to USB instead the wrong way for the current ilk of useless fighting sticks and various stick or D pads! Ya love ta see it <3

Some games lend themselves to D pads, but even these are mostly not tight enough or forcing you to hold your left hand weirdly for your thumb to go straight across the cross.

Whereas a tight joystick can play any game with accuracy. No, not Tac-2. Microswitched. Always.

Unfortunately with a few exceptions, the state of affairs was as bad then as it is now.

Now, there are no excuses for D pads. They were never designed to replace a joystick, just to cut costs. Asking "what is the best D pad"? is === asking "are any NES/SNES platformers ported to Amiga?"

For joysticks back then, the problem was that people wouldn't pay 100-150 spacebucks for a joystick. And a decent one will be around 50 spacebucks retail and up, which was still too expensive. So we got what teenagers could nag out of their parents. For less than half the price of a game, we got ... something... with which to play all of them. And the more expensive ones, still about half the price of 1 game, had the focus of not breaking easily - not performance in games.

This for the context to get me on-topic

Almost every single joystick back then was and is horrible for playing games with, and all of the ones with two buttons can be rewired to have Fire1 and Fire2. (The Amiga supports Fire3 also.) The second button being wired to Fire1 was just to support all the 8-bits and similar that didn't have Fire2. E.g. for left-handed, awesome flight sim missile launcher in the stick ball, etc. So the joysticks were bad for all platforms, not just Amiga

Now to contribute: Quickshot Maverick 3 and 3+3 also support Fire2. They're less horrible than the others, but still horrible compared to just a board and (80s, not floppy fighting stick crap) arcade stick and buttons.

All this to say that rather than find an old joystick that supports Fire2, or DIYing one to support it, skip all of them and various pads. It's the conclusion from a long journey trying to like the retro stuff we got (or the new retro stuff we fall for).

It's a problem very much in such of a solution still. You suck at games cos you're not young enough to overcome the crap performance of the 99% crap joysticks.

[BeamCoder]

Originally Posted by Photon

Whereas a tight joystick can play any game with accuracy. No, not Tac-2. Microswitched. Always.

Unfortunately with a few exceptions, the state of affairs was as bad then as it is now.

Now, there are no excuses for D pads. They were never designed to replace a joystick, just to cut costs. Asking "what is the best D pad"? is === asking "are any NES/SNES platformers ported to Amiga?"

For pure performance/accuracy, maybe keyboard is the best? Some fighting game players use a hitbox(https://www.hitboxarcade.com) which replaces the joystick with buttons, basically like playing on a keyboard.

The Amiga supports Fire3 also

Wonder why there's still no controller that supports Fire3. Maybe if there was one current developers will make a game with 3 button game design in mind.

Kind of like the upcoming Dual Stick controllers from Abstraction Games which opens up new game design that can be made for the Amiga e.g Twin stick shooters.

I know there are CD32 controllers but doesn't that add input lag with it's serial protocol and so will require more processing power compared to just direct connection?

[Solo Kazuki]

When there was many hardware with DB9 joystick, in most cases these are made as "generic Atari type" controllers. Since different hardware have different usage of additional buttons (eg C64 have also up to 3 buttons but activated with VCC not GND) and fist button is same in almost all, then most of controllers (or better to tell almost all) had only one button. Moreover buying just 1 button joystick popularize it and software programmers goes this way. It's blind circle which cause that only some games for Amiga have option to use 2 or more buttons.

Many people whose have contact with Amiga doesn't know that Amiga supports two or three buttons because this. It's one of reasons why i popularize 2+ buttons support when i can.

[BeamCoder]

Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki

When there was many hardware with DB9 joystick, in most cases these are made as "generic Atari type" controllers. Since different hardware have different usage of additional buttons (eg C64 have also up to 3 buttons but activated with VCC not GND) and fist button is same in almost all, then most of controllers (or better to tell almost all) had only one button. Moreover buying just 1 button joystick popularize it and software programmers goes this way. It's blind circle which cause that only some games for Amiga have option to use 2 or more buttons.

Many people whose have contact with Amiga doesn't know that Amiga supports two or three buttons because this. It's one of reasons why i popularize 2+ buttons support when i can.

I guess Amiga will forever be trapped in a 1/2 button game design. No hardware manufacturer creates a 3 button controller, no developer makes a 3 button game, no developer makes a 3 button game, no hardware manufacturer creates a 3 button controller. There's still the option of CD32 support but that has a disadvantage as I said in my previous post.

There is one that will make a 3 button + 8 button support for C64 though. https://www.protovision.games/shop/p...hp?language=en
Maybe this can work on an Amiga for the 3 button mode?

[nikosidis]

I think it is not that difficult regarding 3 button.
Just wire a cable to "up" on joystick and you have a jump button.
With this you have 2 action buttons free from other things.
Sure, this jump button can not be configured to anything else but I would say, "jump" or "up" is used in most games.
Example where this can already be used on Amiga is the game "Aladdin". Jump button (wired to joystick up) Action 1 button, swing sword, action 2 button, through apples.

Sure, C64 supports 3 button. I have made arcade joystick for C64 with 3 button. The Amiga and C64 joystick interface is slightly different.
All that said I do think that what is great about C64 and Amiga is the simplicity. We do not want games with a million buttons like Playstation. 2 Button should cover most. We also have the keyboard.

[BeamCoder]

Originally Posted by nikosidis

I think it is not that difficult regarding 3 button.
Just wire a cable to "up" on joystick and you have a jump button.
With this you have 2 action buttons free from other things.
Sure, this jump button can not be configured to anything else but I would say, "jump" or "up" is used in most games.
Example where this can already be used on Amiga is the game "Aladdin". Jump button (wired to joystick up) Action 1 button, swing sword, action 2 button, through apples.

For all current Amiga games I guess, yes. But for developers who want to create a new game with up and 3rd button to be different...

So I read more about the controller in the page and it does say that it will work on a Amiga and it also says that the 3 button support means up and 3rd button is different.

3 button games can now be a possibility then.

[Solo Kazuki]

Originally Posted by nikosidis

I think it is not that difficult regarding 3 button.
Just wire a cable to "up" on joystick and you have a jump button.

You misunderstood what it means about third button, it's not remapped up but completely independent 3rd button. There are only few games, which can use it (eg Apano Sin and some FPS ports) and it has nothing to remapped up (which have no sense in mentioned cases).

Edit: More about third button is here.

[nikosidis]

Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki

You misunderstood what it means about third button, it's not remapped up but completely independent 3rd button. There are only few games, which can use it (eg Apano Sin and some FPS ports) and it has nothing to remapped up (which have no sense in mentioned cases).

Edit: More about third button is here.

Even if C64 have a third button it is only one game I know of that use it.

If some make a game they might consider a 2nd button but a 3rd button? Don't think so.
We also have the keyboard. Be happy we start to see more use of the 2nd button. Tinyus for example.

Sure the whd-load guys have done a fantastic job to add the 2nd buttons in games that should have supported it in the beginning.

[Solo Kazuki]

Originally Posted by nikosidis

If some make a game they might consider a 2nd button but a 3rd button? Don't think so.
We also have the keyboard.

And similar case was with 1 vs 2 buttons in past...

There are also more popular CD32 compatible joypads which enable usage up to 7 buttons. In most cases it can make keyboard useless.

[nikosidis]

Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki

And similar case was with 1 vs 2 buttons in past...

There are also more popular CD32 compatible joypads which enable usage up to 7 buttons. In most cases it can make keyboard useless.

Yes, that is correct. CD32 did not have a keyboard.
Problem is that most do not have CD32 and most have 1 button joystick.
It is kind of hard in a platform like this to do things that most do not have.
In the past it was impossible to do some games without the use keyboard and joystick, 1 button can be very limiting.
I for sure hope that we will see more support for 2 button when it is needed. If it is not supported from the game originally whd-load usually take care of that.

[Solo Kazuki]

You forgot that CD32 joypads (and compatible) are also useful with any Amiga. Especially A1200 have some games with CD32 joypad support.

[apex]

Get such an adapter:
https://github.com/EmberHeavyIndustries/HID2AMI
And a new competition Pro from Amazon.

[nikosidis]

Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki

You forgot that CD32 joypads (and compatible) are also useful with any Amiga. Especially A1200 have some games with CD32 joypad support.

That is true if you have whd-load installed. If not you can not use the CD32 functionality on A1200.

When people make games it had to assume what people have.

Even if CD32 game pad have many buttons it is top 5 games that used anything more than 1 or 2 button.
Stuff like start, select etc. I would not consider part of a game when you have a keyboard.

[Solo Kazuki]

Originally Posted by apex

Get such an adapter:
https://github.com/EmberHeavyIndustries/HID2AMI
And a new competition Pro from Amazon.

Is it cheaper than $25? I don't think so.

[Solo Kazuki]

Originally Posted by nikosidis

That is true if you have whd-load installed. If not you can not use the CD32 functionality on A1200.

No, there are A1200 games which use CD32 joypad without WHDLoad.

Originally Posted by nikosidis

Even if CD32 game pad have many buttons it is top 5 games that used anything more than 1 or 2 button.
Stuff like start, select etc. I would not consider part of a game when you have a keyboard.

It's far more than five games, please read this thread.

[Photon]

I've replied, just inserting a note that the fewer buttons you support, the less gameplay you have in your game - compare not supporting jumping at all. Then compare to opening doors, climbing ladders and separating that from jumping. Then compare to ducking shots or rolling on the ground through tight spaces or to clear enemies while having armor. Then compare to weapon selection, menu button to manage inventory, and so on and so forth.

Most arcade style games are fine with just 3 buttons, or even just two - they were made to be simple and direct, and it can sometimes be enjoyable to just shoot some monsters or jump some platforms.

Originally Posted by BeamCoder

For pure performance/accuracy, maybe keyboard is the best?[/url]) which replaces the joystick with buttons, basically like playing on a keyboard.

Just like a controller, a pad or joystick is just for comfort. The problem we had with the joysticks we got was that nobody would spend more than $20 on it and we got plastic with suction cups that didn't even suck.

A microswitched keyboard would be as accurate as a microswitched joystick, if these randomly shaped joysticks didn't get in the way. More combinations are also possible, such as pressing up and down simultaneously, which is supported by the joyport interface but impossible with a joystick. The joyport interface supports 2^7=128 combinations.

Finally, games with a lot of gameplay, such as simulators, supported keyboard because it was the only way to do all the gameplay (3 axes control, speed control, navigation, camera control, gear/hook/flaps/brakes, weapon switching and loading.

If a racer/shooter/explorer supported all these things, it would need to support keyboard because even though there are 128 combinations, certain combos would be excruciating to be able to hit in the heat of the action.

A few games besides sims do support keyboard besides joystick and has more gameplay than normal, one of them is Exile. <3

One of the benefits of adding keyboard control to games is that keyboard supports 4-way for games like Pac-Man, where a switch on the arcade joystick added that support.

One of the drawbacks is that you must select your binds to not interfere with one another according to 3-key-rollover.

[BeamCoder]

Originally Posted by Photon

A microswitched keyboard would be as accurate as a microswitched joystick.

This might interest you. https://paradisearcadeshop.com/produ...a036faf6&_ss=r

It's a hall-effect switch programmable joystick(analog,non-microswitch) that let's you create your preferred custom mapping. So if you want big movements in joystick to register, you could set it that way, if you want high sensitivity, you could also set it that way.

Might be a solution to your problems with using most joysticks

Setting up profile only works on PC though I think.

[Retro-Nerd]

I got the newer ArcadeR from Retroradionics. A Competition Pro style stick with Arcade parts. You have to mod it a bit though. I removed the sucktion cups and put some self-sticking rubber feet over the holes. Then i switched the round holed restrictor plate with the octagon one and replaced the actuator with the oversized from Kowal. For shorter ways to the micro switches. Not perfect but for some games i've tested so far it's a nice stick, e.g. Chaos Engine.



The right joystick button is already used as the second Amiga button. A permanent fire switch is built-in too, no auto-fire though.

[Solo Kazuki]

I have same joystick and i don't understand what You mean about "no autofire"? Left switch on side with cable is autofire on/off, but fire (whatever type is) is only active when You push left button. It's more comfortable and logic than "permanent autofire" which You must switch off to stop fire.

N.B. Right switch is to select right button as independent 2nd fire button or just "cloned" 1st fire.
Errata: Right switch is to select second button as 2nd or 3rd (!) firee button.