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Old 06 June 2021, 00:06   #1
tverrbjelke
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Join Date: May 2019
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Setup Harddrive (Files) from scratch for Workbenck 1.3 (with FS-UAE)

new here and I am not sure where to post such thing. Maybe some others might stumble like me and could find this info helpful - but which title and where to move it? I took some screen shots, esp. remembering the HDToolBox steps - but I am not sure if and how to add it to this text here.

Please bear with me, this is coming from my emacs-org file where I put my notes... and I am new to this forum...


But I finally succeeded to create me the well formatted rdb file with one partition holding fresh installed WB1.3. I wanted to get close to my origtinal A2000 (with a 105MB scsi HD+memory expansions) as possible for me...


here is the info I wanted to share, with the last missing piece and this was the intended Title:

------------

Setup Harddrive (Files) from scratch for Workbenck 1.3 (with FS-UAE)

Overview:
  • You may format the harddrive from within WB3.1
  • with uae (-> uaehf.device) or ide0 (-> scsi.device),
  • L:FastFileSystem added - If you want the new harddrive-file bootable for Workbench 1.3, you have to copy a workbench 1.3 version of FastFileSystem to your L: and update this to the new partition(s) when setting things up with HDToolBox
  • formating partition with flags "FFS", without "international mode", without "dir cache" (see Workbench 1.3 vs 2.X 3.X http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/FFS "International mode" and "Directory Caching mode" must be
    deactivated for WB1.3)
  • targeting Workbenck 1.3 VM, you have to use one of this roms when using the harddrive-file:
  • Kickstart ROM 1.3r34.5 + hard_drive_0_type = uae
  • Kickstart ROM 2.04r37.175 + hard_drive_0_type = ide0 or uae
All other types than "uae"/"ide0" (e.g. "scsi") , will not be detected properly by FS-UAE :-(

Now read the remaining findings... there is a lot of helpful information around the net:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=64192
https://fs-uae.net/docs/hard-drives
https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/15-113

My goal: have several harddrives (rbd files), each for an individual Amiga VM:

  • A1200 WB3.1 for coding
  • A1200 WB3.1 for gaming
  • A2000 WB1.3 for coding
  • A2000 WB1.3 for gaming
...


But since I also wanted to try out all the different controller types
(ide0 scsi uae), I initially created me one of each type and try to get
it working for a "base A2000 WB1.3" VM, with just the workbench
installed and bootable from this harddrive.

Those I then will further use as base (to clone from and then install me dev-tools or games).

As mentioned: For A500/2000 Workbench1.3 you need a hack:
(wonder how on real hardware with only Workbench 1.3 available, you
could do this)
  • Create Harddrive File
In fs-uae-launcher main menu is a HDF creator. I create "rbd" files
(which is simulating the whole drive with partitions inside)
  • Setup FS-UAE configuration
/!\ BEWARE: FS-UAE-launcher has two places to define controller types:
  • the VM config file
  • fs-uae-launcher menu Settings(Einstellungen) -> Advanced(Erweitert).
/!\ You *must* match the controller type specified here with the
hdtoolbox-driver used later to partition and format the harddrive
file.

I am yet unclear how different settings from config file and the
advanced (Erweitert) behave. So finally I make sure the advanced
settings from the gui is containing no hard_drive_0_controller
settings at all.


see

https://fs-uae.net/docs/options/hard-drive-0-controller

and sourcecode of fs-uae: "config-drives.c" (54): "ide", "uae" (default) "scsi", "scsi_cpuboard",

Experiments with "ide0", "uae" and "scsi" configuration show: alas only ide and uae seem to work, like this example snippet of VM configurtion file (of fs-uae):

Quote:
hard_drive_0 = $HOME/Documents/FS-UAE/Harddrives/CodingDemos/rdf_uae_110mb_ffs-empty.hdf
hard_drive_0_controller = uae
hard_drive_0_type = rdb
  • Partition and Format Drive within Amiga OS using HDToolBox from WB3.1
see [ Show youtube player ] "Episode 32 - Amiga OS Tutorial Part 2 - The Shell and Startup Files" by 10 Minute Amiga Retro Cast

One needs to create a Workbench 3.1 (or 2.0) emulation. There, within booted
Amiga
workbench you can partition format the harddisks with the HDToolBox
program (which is on installer floppy disk 1).
You have to call it from shell, so you can provide the device driver.

Boot this Amiga in FS-UAE, e.g. with Workbench3.1 Disk 2 as df0:
and when booted, insert Workbench 1.3 disk into df1:.


Now you can copy the 1.3 Version of FastFileSystem to L: which will be needed by HDToolBox on partitioning:


Open a shell:


Quote:
rename l:FastFileSystem l:FastFileSystem,3.1
copy clone from df0:l/FastFileSystem to l:FastFileSystem
Then insert WB3.1 Install dist into df1: and start hdtoolbox to
do your harddrive setup stuff and esp. don't forget to
"update" for each partition it's filesystem handler from L:FastFileSystem.




(You can use either of scsi.device or uaehf.device)

Quote:
cd df1:hdtools
hdtoolbox uaehf.device
You might want to set max transfer number to 0x1fe00 - this is not needed for emulated drives, but for *real harddrives you must limit
MaxTransfer rate. You can also perform low level format and finally you must save changes.

After finishing initial setup and reboot into Workbench3.1 you need to quick format the
partitions from the Workbench3.1 Icon selecting "NDOS" (Even if you did format the new harddrive(file) inside HDToolBox, you again have to format it from the workbench to get rid of the NDOS - why I don't know! )



When done, you migt want to revert the Workbench1.3 FastFileSystem handler back to 3.1



Quote:
rename l:FastFileSystem l:FastFileSystem1.3
rename l:FastFileSystem3.1 l:FastFileSystem
There it is: your empty harddrive-file for Workbenck 1.3, from scratch.



  • Install Workbench 1.3:

Create a new VM using this harddrive-file
insert Workbench disks 1+2, boot into it, start a shell, and there simply copy all from disk to drive


Quote:
copy clone all df0: dh0:
copy clone all df1: dh0:
You can now adjust your dh0:S/startup-sequence scripts as you like, eject all disks and reboot into your vanilla Workbench 1.3 harddrive system.

Last edited by tverrbjelke; 06 June 2021 at 00:10. Reason: formating
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Old 12 June 2021, 11:10   #2
FrodeSolheim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tverrbjelke View Post
I am yet unclear how different settings from config file and the advanced (Erweitert) behave. So finally I make sure the advanced settings from the gui is containing no hard_drive_0_controller settings at all.
Settings (and advanced settings) are options that apply to all configurations, unless explicitly overridden in configuration. So, settings is intended for stuff like display configuration and adapting FS-UAE to your host computer, not for Amiga configuration. Indeed, putting options affecting the emulation itself in advanced settings is a bad idea and it will only cause confusion in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tverrbjelke View Post
alas only ide and uae seem to work, like this example snippet of VM configurtion file (of fs-uae)
Using hard_drive_0_controller does not actually add an controller, it only tells UAE to which controll to attach the drive. For example, the Amiga 1200 (by default) has an IDE controller, so you can attach a disk to ide0. An Amiga 500 does not, so using ide0 won't work there. Similarly, to use scsi, the emulated Amiga must actually have a scsi controller.
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Old 12 June 2021, 11:45   #3
tverrbjelke
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Join Date: May 2019
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hard_drive_0_controller ..._type related lack of knowledge

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrodeSolheim View Post
Using hard_drive_0_controller does not actually add an controller, it only tells UAE to which controll to attach the drive. For example, the Amiga 1200 (by default) has an IDE controller, so you can attach a disk to ide0. An Amiga 500 does not, so using ide0 won't work there. Similarly, to use scsi, the emulated Amiga must actually have a scsi controller.
Oh Master of FS-UAE!



It was terrible difficult for me to get this harddrive thing working for a WB1.3 scenario - there seem to be plenty of unknown layers involved and some are related to emulation (like tipps: "copy file FastFileSystem to this magical ROM folder..." which did not work for me) - and looking at the dokumentation of e.g. fs-uae did complicate things - there are mentioned options which are not described in detail as I needed it... maybe I could dig into this and add to the documentation?

I wanted to get as close to my A2000 as possible - it ha[d/s] this still functioning SCSI + RAM expansion card from quantum with that 105MB drive. And my desire was to one day be able to sync that all (as a start: partitions and files) into the emulation and revive the anchient gods of remembrance...

I don't understand how the uaehf.device vs scsi.device argument to the hdtoolbox relates to the emulation configuration "ide0" vs "scsi" vs "uae" hard_drive_X_controller: how does the old harddrive formatting tool know the uaehf.device option and where does that XXX.device driver on the workbench come from?
(and is it "ide" or "ide0" or "ide1" when I want to provide the hard_drive_[0|1]_controller configuration?)

Looking at the code fs-uae-2.9.12dev:
config-drives.c (line 54): "ide", "uae" (default) "scsi", "scsi_cpuboard",

But I dont understand the meaning and usage. Maybe you can help me understand this?


WHile I was experiencing I only get "uae" working, now you are telling me, if I add a scsi card to the emulation (and configure it somehow) I could use "scsi" there, too? And If I add a ide controller, i also could use "ide0" or "ide1" in configuration for my WB1.3 setting (or Wb3.1)?
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