English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Nostalgia & memories

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 16 June 2021, 17:51   #2821
rabidgerry
Registered User

rabidgerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: N.Ireland/Belfast
Posts: 888
Just I have a Fast ATA MKII and I am in two minds about it which is why I initially ask.

Like am I really going to get a nice pay off? Or headache.
rabidgerry is offline  
Old 16 June 2021, 18:38   #2822
grond
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,058
Even the harddisks of old were a massive speed-up compared to floppy disks. It didn't matter that much, though, whether your harddisk did 1.2 MB/s or 1.5MB/s. What did the FDD do? 80KB/s? Amiga files are usually in the dozens of KBs to single digit MB range. Other factors are limiting in an Amiga which is why you won't notice all that much of a speed-up if you get a MB/s more. HDDs (dozens of MB/s) vs. SDDs (up to GB/s) in modern day PCs have more notable effects as we are routinely handling files in the GB size range.
grond is offline  
Old 17 June 2021, 16:31   #2823
Lord Aga
MI clan prevails

Lord Aga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 1,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidgerry View Post
Just I have a Fast ATA MKII and I am in two minds about it which is why I initially ask.
Like am I really going to get a nice pay off? Or headache.
I see where you're coming from. Personally I wouldn't bother.

If you have a turbo card, or even just some FAST RAM, the transfer should be more than enough to enjoy everything Amiga
Lord Aga is offline  
Old 17 June 2021, 17:33   #2824
rabidgerry
Registered User

rabidgerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: N.Ireland/Belfast
Posts: 888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Aga View Post
I see where you're coming from. Personally I wouldn't bother.

If you have a turbo card, or even just some FAST RAM, the transfer should be more than enough to enjoy everything Amiga

I knew someone would say that, but then this is why I asked. I have an Apollo 1260 with 64mb of ram. On my ACA 1233n the IDE speeder gets me around 6.5 mb/s. With the Apollo I get around 2.1 mb/s.
rabidgerry is offline  
Old 17 June 2021, 18:14   #2825
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 5,297
Well, given the option, if all other factors aren't of any consequence, there's nothing wrong with going for a faster drive. The speed of any drive these days will be restricted by the Amiga's IDE bus, so anything that gives you 10MB/s or more will already be able to outpace even the IDE speeder setup, and pretty much any decent device these days should be able to sustain those speeds. What made more of a difference back in the day with mechanical drives was seek time, especially when accessing lots of small files, a heavily fragmented drive or when accessing multiple files at once where more of the time was spent moving the heads than actually transferring data. Solid state drives don't have seek times as such, so that's largely irrelevant these days too.
Daedalus is offline  
Old 17 June 2021, 20:16   #2826
rabidgerry
Registered User

rabidgerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: N.Ireland/Belfast
Posts: 888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Well, given the option, if all other factors aren't of any consequence, there's nothing wrong with going for a faster drive. The speed of any drive these days will be restricted by the Amiga's IDE bus, so anything that gives you 10MB/s or more will already be able to outpace even the IDE speeder setup, and pretty much any decent device these days should be able to sustain those speeds. What made more of a difference back in the day with mechanical drives was seek time, especially when accessing lots of small files, a heavily fragmented drive or when accessing multiple files at once where more of the time was spent moving the heads than actually transferring data. Solid state drives don't have seek times as such, so that's largely irrelevant these days too.
For clarity's sake, do you mean an actual hard drive and not CF/SD drives or are you including those or differentiating between the two?

I did an experiment myself and copied the exact same image of a drive onto an SD card (class10 U1) just to see if I got any more mb/s using that over a CF card rates 133x. I got a little more, but not much. This was simply to see if a faster rated card would boost the rate without any additional gadgets. When using the IDE speeder on my ACA card the same 133x CF card was getting that 6.5 mb/s. So I know a 133x card is capable of 20mb/s so if the IDE is the bottle neck how do the extra hardware break through that?

Sorry for all the questions.
rabidgerry is offline  
Old 17 June 2021, 21:18   #2827
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 5,297
I was kinda covering both - ultimately it doesn't matter in terms of throughput. You'll get small differences from device to device, but that SD card is capable of 10MB/s and the CF card is capable of 20MB/s so both will saturate the IDE port and give similar speeds. Mechanical hard drives should easily be able to exceed 10MB/s too unless they're very old indeed, but this performance will be affected significantly by seek times, so that comes into play too...

The IDE speeder pulls a couple of tricks to improve throughput, but these are applied at an interface level, so it shouldn't matter what sort of device is attached - mechanical hard drives should benefit as well as CF/SD cards.
Daedalus is offline  
Old 17 June 2021, 21:23   #2828
rabidgerry
Registered User

rabidgerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: N.Ireland/Belfast
Posts: 888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
I was kinda covering both - ultimately it doesn't matter in terms of throughput. You'll get small differences from device to device, but that SD card is capable of 10MB/s and the CF card is capable of 20MB/s so both will saturate the IDE port and give similar speeds. Mechanical hard drives should easily be able to exceed 10MB/s too unless they're very old indeed, but this performance will be affected significantly by seek times, so that comes into play too...

The IDE speeder pulls a couple of tricks to improve throughput, but these are applied at an interface level, so it shouldn't matter what sort of device is attached - mechanical hard drives should benefit as well as CF/SD cards.
Thanks

I'll probably install the Fast ATA, you know how us Amigans just can't help tinkering
rabidgerry is offline  
Old 03 July 2021, 12:17   #2829
kremiso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Italy
Posts: 220
Never had a real A500 plus, so i'll ask here
it is possible to connect the old halfmeg expansion (a501 or compatibles) also on this?

can't remember at all
kremiso is offline  
Old 03 July 2021, 18:34   #2830
Jope
-
Jope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Helsinki / Finland
Age: 40
Posts: 8,602
I remember it working, you get 512kB more chip.
Jope is offline  
Old 03 July 2021, 23:23   #2831
NLS
Ancient User
NLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: GREECE
Age: 47
Posts: 693
1.5MB chip?
Not so sure.
AGA was capable of 2MB chip.
I think it added it as 512Kb slow.
NLS is offline  
Old 03 July 2021, 23:42   #2832
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 5,297
ECS is also capable of 2MB chip RAM - just look at the A600 and A3000. 1MB expansions for the 500+ also make it up to 2MB of chip RAM, so there's no reason the 512kB expansion wouldn't be added as chip RAM.

The RTC on the 512kB memory expansion won't be used however.
Daedalus is offline  
Old 04 July 2021, 00:10   #2833
NLS
Ancient User
NLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: GREECE
Age: 47
Posts: 693
Indeed you are right.
NLS is offline  
Old 04 July 2021, 14:22   #2834
kremiso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Italy
Posts: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
I remember it working, you get 512kB more chip.
thank you
i was trying to search on google without luck
kremiso is offline  
Old 06 July 2021, 13:35   #2835
NLS
Ancient User
NLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: GREECE
Age: 47
Posts: 693
I keep hearing people downloading more RAM in modern computers (I haven't tried yet).
Could the Amiga download more RAM?
Or because of the slower speeds, old tcp/ip stack limitations and not real Internet yet, it was not possible?
NLS is offline  
Old 06 July 2021, 15:16   #2836
ajk
Registered User
ajk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,323
Uh... what do you mean by RAM in this context?
ajk is offline  
Old 06 July 2021, 15:53   #2837
NLS
Ancient User
NLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: GREECE
Age: 47
Posts: 693
Random Access Memory
NLS is offline  
Old 06 July 2021, 15:59   #2838
crazyc
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Gravesend - UK
Posts: 772
Ok, I am going to have to ask... what do you mean download more ram? What am I missing as on the face of it this is like asking if you could download a new dvd drive..?
crazyc is offline  
Old 06 July 2021, 16:39   #2839
NLS
Ancient User
NLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: GREECE
Age: 47
Posts: 693
Well don't ask me. I keep reading this happening (?).
There are sites for this.
NLS is offline  
Old 06 July 2021, 16:40   #2840
crazyc
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Gravesend - UK
Posts: 772
Perhaps if you could provide a link it would give some context?
crazyc is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gamebase Amiga - 2 Questions Fiery Phoenix New to Emulation or Amiga scene 8 13 August 2012 12:31
Amiga CD32 questions pubzombie New to Emulation or Amiga scene 26 24 January 2010 16:27
A few general Amiga questions. Hougham support.Hardware 6 30 April 2008 22:13
Amiga A4000 Questions mfletcher support.Hardware 8 29 April 2008 10:51
Amiga 600 Questions JDunlap support.Hardware 14 20 January 2008 19:13

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.20871 seconds with 16 queries