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Old 10 June 2021, 15:50   #621
BigD
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Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
So I should stop working on the software I make for the Amiga as a hobby because it does not pay me?

AmigaOS is not shareware, hence my comments about eventually open sourcing being a likely aim of the coders in question IMHO. Ben/Hyperion make a profit from AmigaOS 3.2 and the 'workers' don't! I don't need to use Victorian England's cotton mills as a case study of why that's generally a bad model do I?




I obviously do; Ben would be the guy in the background with top hat on and the coder "having fun with the OS" is the little 'Mule Scavanger' kid "having fun" in the looms!
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Old 10 June 2021, 16:03   #622
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That's a staggeringly poor comparison to make, and is essentially calling the developers liars with nothing whatsoever to base that accusation on but the disconcert between your opinion and reality.
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Old 10 June 2021, 16:07   #623
Olaf Barthel
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Originally Posted by BigD View Post
And that's the worst bit. YOU might not require paying but someone far more gifted than you might want to contribute to the ongoing development but rightly would want fair recompense for the work and yet YOU AND EL. have set the precedent that AmigaOS developers don't get paid and yet IP/license holders DO because they need money to pay the legal expenses!!
The worst bit, in my opinion, is if nobody cared any more about the Amiga beyond what assets and properties had been accumulated over the past 35+ years. While not as alive as it may have been in the late 1980'ies, the Amiga is still a precious thing to many, myself included. What I learned over the decades and made me who I am, and not just as a problem solver and software developer, came from knowing and sharing what I learned through the Amiga.

Time spent on preserving what once was, so that it might one day find another community which could rediscover and cherish it, seems to be a strange agenda. The legal dispute and everything that comes with it is burdensome for sure and it doesn't make it any easier to put in the time to care for something that's beyond what draws the most attention: the legal battle (watch the flames, bring the popcorn, cheer for your team, discuss strategy and tactics, speculate about what the next season might bring).

There will be a day when that legal battle will be over, the dust will have settled and, unless somebody has taken measures, something will have been trampled into that dust which could have deserved better. As for myself, I decided to take measures and sacrifice my time for it. It was not a decision taken lightly and it goes back decades.

This is not for everyone and I doubt it is a good precedent for future work. It is irresponsible and irrational to begin with unless you accept this gift as a means to "prime the pump": make the Amiga a more viable tool for creative work than it is now. It sort of works for me, for the time being.
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Old 10 June 2021, 16:17   #624
Heiroglyph
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Originally Posted by 512k View Post
4.16 * When I boot my Amiga, it stops at a black screen.
What is going on?

If you booted your Amiga with no drives at all or none gets detected, a
black screen will be shown signaling that your system is inoperable.

Just by adding any compatible disk drive (even a floppy one) and
rebooting, the Amiga will resume the boot process as usual.

So if you are performing some motherboard diagnostics without any drive
you may prefer to keep the Help keyboard key depressed or hold both
mouse buttons to access the Early Startup Control Menu (bootmenu).

Would this stop a hdd booting with 3.1?
Who in the hell thought this was a good idea? I wasted so many hours trying to get a good set of ROMs burned for my A4000 and wasted so many erase/burn cycles on my eproms.

Literally since day one of A1000 we've relied on a boot screen to tell us that the system was basically functional until you put a disk in.

I bet my very first eproms were fine, but since it's a pain in the ass to reassemble a 4000D and all the cables go over the CPU which is over the ROMs, I don't assemble it with drives just to see that my ROMs work.

I love 3.2 so far, but this was just mind numbingly dumb.
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Old 10 June 2021, 16:19   #625
BigD
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Originally Posted by Olaf Barthel View Post
This is not for everyone and I doubt it is a good precedent for future work. It is irresponsible and irrational to begin with unless you accept this gift as a means to "prime the pump": make the Amiga a more viable tool for creative work than it is now. It sort of works for me, for the time being.

That my firend is a very poetic response (honestly) and I accept your point of view. I just wish we could hear the Hyperion side of the story via the long promised Stephen Jones interview or failing that in the form of a poem or maybe a rap/rock ballad


I too wish for an end to all this 'behind the scenes' bickering and yes the risk is that what was once valuable will be trampled beyond repair so the "prime the pump" analogy is very powerful (and compatible with Trevor's "keep the party going" slogan)!

@Daedalus
My point was if ALL you care about is preserving the code then an open source model makes sense. If this is about salvaging a small market for the like of AmigaKit, Cloanto, A-EON AND Hyperion then the status quo is NOT the best way to promote a mutually beneficial outcome!
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Old 10 June 2021, 16:37   #626
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Originally Posted by Heiroglyph View Post
Literally since day one of A1000 we've relied on a boot screen to tell us that the system was basically functional until you put a disk in.
I guess there's little point in an "insert disk" screen when it's impossible to insert a disk; it appears to be the first version of the OS that doesn't assume DF0: exists and is working. But yes, some other indication that the boot process has reached a dead end might be nice, even if it's just a bit of text to say so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigD View Post
My point was if ALL you care about is preserving the code then an open source model makes sense. If this is about salvaging a small market for the like of AmigaKit, Cloanto, A-EON AND Hyperion then the status quo is NOT the best way to promote a mutually beneficial outcome!
And what about if it's neither of those things, but about wanting to contribute to the development of the OS and following the only path that allows this? Again, try not to limit your perception of things to just the couple of possibilities you can think of. It will only end up with having to make stuff up (or adopting things made up by others) to fill in the parts you don't get.
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Old 10 June 2021, 16:52   #627
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Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Again, try not to limit your perception of things to just the couple of possibilities you can think of. It will only end up with having to make stuff up (or adopting things made up by others) to fill in the parts you don't get.

Thanks for the life coaching whether asked for or not!


Obviously, there is room for users to get excited about polished 3.1 source code reaching equivalency with OS3.9 but with less kludges (my summary of what OS3.2 actually is sorry if you disagree) and play within the legally grey areas! They ARE currently allowed to purchase OS3.2 and any activity is exciting given the mess of CoffinOS and AROS/ApolloOS being bundled with the Vampire due to a lack of a good alternative to OS3.9! So yes there are shades of grey but I think it is pretty much certain that Hyperion would be forced to settle quicker through lack of money and reduced revenue if no one actually bought OS3.2! That's NOT a pipe dream it's just economic reality!
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Old 10 June 2021, 16:55   #628
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I just got my CD from Retro Rewind they received their second batch on friday and shipped quickly. At last a Vendor in Canada so I don't have to deal with duties and border clearance.
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Old 10 June 2021, 17:27   #629
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Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
I guess there's little point in an "insert disk" screen when it's impossible to insert a disk; it appears to be the first version of the OS that doesn't assume DF0: exists and is working. But yes, some other indication that the boot process has reached a dead end might be nice, even if it's just a bit of text to say so.
Exactly!

Name one other computer from any era that just has a black screen when no disks are found.

That's not user friendly, it's decidedly user hostile.

Any text or graphic would have been better than solid black and an insert disk message might be a hint that it wants a disk.

If people can't work out that without a drive they can't insert a disk, they're beyond help.
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Old 10 June 2021, 18:31   #630
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Originally Posted by Heiroglyph View Post
If people can't work out that without a drive they can't insert a disk, they're beyond help.
Man, calm down. It’s a bug and we will fix it. Now enjoy the machine.
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Old 10 June 2021, 19:17   #631
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Originally Posted by bubbob42 View Post
Man, calm down. It’s a bug and we will fix it. Now enjoy the machine.
Sorry, I thought it was a conscious decision.

I totally understand bugs, I've made plenty of my own but it sounded like it was intentional.

I'm just a little on edge because I wasted so much time over the course of 3 days thinking my ebay eproms were bad or that I was doing something wrong.

I've really been liking it with my 3.1.4 ROMs though.
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Old 10 June 2021, 20:10   #632
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Originally Posted by bubbob42 View Post
Man, calm down. It’s a bug and we will fix it. Now enjoy the machine.
Does it mean that is a new version of ROM(s) is needed?
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Old 10 June 2021, 20:14   #633
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Originally Posted by Heiroglyph View Post
Sorry, I thought it was a conscious decision.
.
No problem. About 30 testers , several hardware tinkerers among them (myself included) and not one of us fired up a Miggy with 3.2 ROMs and without a floppy. It seems we‘d need reinforcements.


@BigD:

The world is grey. Always.
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Old 10 June 2021, 20:17   #634
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Originally Posted by Predseda View Post
Does it mean that is a new version of ROM(s) is needed?
If you fire up your Amiga without any drives daily and you can’t live with a black screen and pressing help key or Mousebuttons, then you might need a new ROM.

So let’s agree on „no“.
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Old 10 June 2021, 21:01   #635
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No problem. About 30 testers , several hardware tinkerers among them (myself included) and not one of us fired up a Miggy with 3.2 ROMs and without a floppy. It seems we‘d need reinforcements.
It's all good now that I know.

That line in the FAQ was just worded in such a way as to sound like a design decision.
"If you booted your Amiga with no drives at all or none gets detected, a
black screen will be shown signaling
that your system is inoperable."

Other than this one issue though the experience has been great so far. I won't be going back to 3.9 for sure and look forward to more releases.
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Old 11 June 2021, 12:04   #636
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So I finally got my AmigaOS 3.2 delivery from Amigastore.eu today... but all I got was the CD - they didn't send me the physical Kickstart ROMS I'd ordered.

Hope it doesn't take another month to get them sorted.
3 days after mailing them about the missing ROMS and still no reply.

Somebody out there really doesn't want me to use 3.2...

Have emailed them again...
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Old 11 June 2021, 16:10   #637
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3 days after mailing them about the missing ROMS and still no reply.

Somebody out there really doesn't want me to use 3.2...

Have emailed them again...
I mailed them and got an answer that mine is going to be shipped today from Amigastore.eu, I ordered on 26th of May (but I did some changes to my order a few days later).
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Old 11 June 2021, 16:17   #638
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I mailed them and got an answer that mine is going to be shipped today from Amigastore.eu, I ordered on 26th of May (but I did some changes to my order a few days later).
To be fair, I emailed them again this morning after posting that update and I got a reply just a few minutes ago with an apology for the mix-up and another explanation of how busy they still are. They also confirmed that they would post my ROM's out today.
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Old 11 June 2021, 16:56   #639
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Originally Posted by BigD View Post
You might THINK the first minister was being selfless but he was actually storing up problems for the next guy by not preaching basic truths.
Why did the second guy even apply for the job when it was clear it was a non paying job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigD View Post
The basic truth here is people SHOULD be paid for work undertaken. 'Nuff said.
Sorry, but with that state of mind NOTHING would get done for the Amiga. I just spent 1000 hours coding a game. I sold a decent amount, but compared what I earn in my day job it's crazy little money per hour spent working on this game.

The market is much too small to sustain industry rate payment in any way.
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Old 11 June 2021, 17:27   #640
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The market is much too small to sustain industry rate payment in any way.
And yet A-EON pays it so it is possible! A coder like yourself should use the shareware model.
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