Which game you think mainly represents the Amiga?

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by h0ffman

Lemmings is representative of the Amiga because it was conceived and built using Amigas. Without the Amiga, Deluxe Paint and a rag time bunch of computer enthusiasts from Dundee the game simply wouldn't exist.

Correct.

Right from the off, DMA Design had ZERO interest in the ST or PC, their ethos was Amiga right from the start, usually with others converting their games for them.

Without Amiga, Lemmings simply wouldn't exist.

Its hard to appreciate just how bespoke the Amiga version is, I think its the only two player mouse control version, has the intro and the only one with the split screen resolution for the main game, low res for the game screen, and I think Hi res for where you click to make the Lemmings do different things.

I think the only reason why DMA did the ST version is because the Amiga version wasn't geared toward being super smooth scrolling because the game style didn't suit it so conversion to ST was easy from that perspective.

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Yeah the Amiga bashing there is becoming ridiculous. That is a big problem on this board and nobody seems to care about being invaded by trolls making provocating statements and let them alone with that.

The post you quote is indeed rather ridiculous in its extreme position, and could be considered a troll effort, but it's an outlier. Unless you can quote some more examples of "Amiga bashing" and the subsequent "troll invasion"?

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Correct.

Right from the off, DMA Design had ZERO interest in the ST or PC, their ethos was Amiga right from the start, usually with others converting their games for them.

Without Amiga, Lemmings simply wouldn't exist.

Its hard to appreciate just how bespoke the Amiga version is, I think its the only two player mouse control version, has the intro and the only one with the split screen resolution for the main game, low res for the game screen, and I think Hi res for where you click to make the Lemmings do different things.

I think the only reason why DMA did the ST version is because the Amiga version wasn't geared toward being super smooth scrolling because the game style didn't suit it so conversion to ST was easy from that perspective.

Not sure i gathered that personally from when i was making my Lemmings book, it was always planned to be multi-format, and from what i make from it, the only reason the Amiga version was first out the door was because of Dave Jones being more an Amiga fan, after all the colours of the game were due, and first demo were made on PC.

I just think Amiga owners took to the game and made more noise at the time it just kinda stuck, and what with the game coming on one month before the ST and five months before the PC in many hearts it belongs as an Amiga game, despite being developed as a multi-format one.

[kremiso]

your preferences, so far
cold thing, surely better to read into each single post
here all the titles with at least two preferences

Shadow of the Beast - 15
Lemmings - 8
Defender of the Crown - 5
Turrican 2 - 5
Sensible Soccer - 4
Cannon Fodder - 3
Lionheart - 3

Agony - 2
Another World - 2
Chaos Engine - 2
It came from the Desert - 2
Kick Off 2 - 2
Pinball Dreams - 2
Superfrog - 2
Turrican - 2

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

Not sure i gathered that personally from when i was making my Lemmings book, it was always planned to be multi-format, and from what i make from it, the only reason the Amiga version was first out the door was because of Dave Jones being more an Amiga fan, after all the colours of the game were due, and first demo were made on PC.

I just think Amiga owners took to the game and made more noise at the time it just kinda stuck, and what with the game coming on one month before the ST and five months before the PC in many hearts it belongs as an Amiga game, despite being developed as a multi-format one.

I think the multi format aspect only happened after Psygnosis realised what they had on their hands.

Sure, it's every developers hope that their game will hit lots of different formats, but few do.

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

I think the multi format aspect only happened after Psygnosis realised what they had on their hands.

Sure, it's every developers hope that their game will hit lots of different formats, but few do.

Yes, by multi-format i mean Amiga, ST and PC which were developed in parallel, the countless other ports which were mainly done by 3rd party developers, bar the Atari Lynx and maybe another one i can’t remember, then yes these weren’t thought of until after the initial success of the 16-bit computer versions.

[Megalomaniac]

Looking at review dates, ST Lemmings was a good four months after the Amiga version, which suggests that they started it pretty quickly afterwards, having to scale the graphics down to 16 colours, redo all the sounds (they're not all in the ST version, including the clump-clump of the builder placing blocks, but cleverly they make the disc drive light flash on the last three, as a warning that you're running out) and the reading of control inputs. It was actually converted by Brian Watson who I don't think was a DMA Design employee, but the same guy as did the ST version of Menace, which was pretty poor, to the point that he essentially apologised for it in ST Format magazine. Lemmings being bundled with the Amiga might help with the perception of it as a symbolic representation of the Amiga, but to me it symbolised everything great about the era.

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

Looking at review dates, ST Lemmings was a good four months after the Amiga version, which suggests that they started it pretty quickly afterwards, having to scale the graphics down to 16 colours, redo all the sounds (they're not all in the ST version, including the clump-clump of the builder placing blocks, but cleverly they make the disc drive light flash on the last three, as a warning that you're running out) and the reading of control inputs. It was actually converted by Brian Watson who I don't think was a DMA Design employee, but the same guy as did the ST version of Menace, which was pretty poor, to the point that he essentially apologised for it in ST Format magazine. Lemmings being bundled with the Amiga might help with the perception of it as a symbolic representation of the Amiga, but to me it symbolised everything great about the era.

Yeah looking again it does look around June for the ST version, PC was July.

Re-reading my Lemmings interview, maybe as you say the ST wasn’t done in-house so i didn’t get comment from Brian Watson, but Russell Kay who did the PC versions talked about working on them whilst the Amiga version was mid development, so it wasn’t just an Amiga only again, but the Amiga was certainly the lead development version after the initial PC demo.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

Yeah looking again it does look around June for the ST version, PC was July.

Re-reading my Lemmings interview, maybe as you say the ST wasn’t done in-house so i didn’t get comment from Brian Watson, but Russell Kay who did the PC versions talked about working on them whilst the Amiga version was mid development, so it wasn’t just an Amiga only again, but the Amiga was certainly the lead development version after the initial PC demo.

Wasn't the very first demo an Amiga one ? With soon to be called lemmings having pink (edit : blue) hairs ?

EDIT : http://www.javalemmings.com/DMA/Lem_1.htm

Scott Johnson (author of Hired Guns on the Amiga) had just been hired as a freelance artist after being rescued from a 2 week streach behind the counter at MacDonalds, and assigned the task of creating the graphics for Walker.After building the walkers head, he set about drawing little men for the walker to shoot at in a 16 by 16 pixel box.

I however maintained that they could be done in less; 8 by 8 - or so I thought. One lunchtime I borrowed some one's Amiga (probably Gary's, although it might have been a spare), and set about trying to prove him wrong

[TCD]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Wasn't the very first demo an Amiga one ? With soon to be called lemmings having pink hairs ?

EDIT : http://www.javalemmings.com/DMA/Lem_1.htm

The first picture in the article you link to is the first Lemmings demo/animation. Mike is on Mastodon: https://oldbytes.space/@mdf200@mastodon.gamedev.place

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Wasn't the very first demo an Amiga one ? With soon to be called lemmings having pink hairs ?

EDIT : http://www.javalemmings.com/DMA/Lem_1.htm

Scroll down on that page, he states the first demo was on the PC, and explains why the graphics were based on PC specs rather than being aimed at Amiga specs.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

Scroll down on that page, he states the first demo was on the PC, and explains why the graphics were based on PC specs rather than being aimed at Amiga specs.

Yes but I was just stating that everything started at first on the Amiga were the very first animation of what would become eventually the Lemmings was made.

Lemmings started life as a simple animation back in August 1989

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

Not sure i gathered that personally from when i was making my Lemmings book, it was always planned to be multi-format, and from what i make from it, the only reason the Amiga version was first out the door was because of Dave Jones being more an Amiga fan, after all the colours of the game were due, and first demo were made on PC.

There's also the 2 player mode that is Amiga exclusive (the RMC talk that Mike gave is quite interesting). Also the intro animation isn't on PC or ST if I remember correctly. I'm pretty sure ports were planned very early on, but I'd still say it was an Amiga game first that then got ported to other platforms.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by TCD

There's also the 2 player mode that is Amiga exclusive (the RMC talk that Mike gave is quite interesting). Also the intro animation isn't on PC or ST if I remember correctly.

2 player mode exists in ST version too but it can't use two mice. Intro anim is indeed missing.

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Yes but I was just stating that everything started at first on the Amiga were the very first animation of what would become eventually the Lemmings was made.

Because the Amiga was available. I don't subscribe to the notion that the machine made it happen, it was still the people behind the keyboard and as intelligent skilled people would do, they used what was available to them. Just like the people who built Deluxe Paint did.

Credit where credit is due, lets not dilute it by claiming hardware did it.

[AestheticDebris]

Originally Posted by gimbal

Because the Amiga was available. I don't subscribe to the notion that the machine made it happen, it was still the people behind the keyboard and as intelligent skilled people would do, they used what was available to them. Just like the people who built Deluxe Paint did.

Credit where credit is due, lets not dilute it by claiming hardware did it.

I think the Amiga facilitated it, by providing much better graphical capability than other machines of the time. Tool like Deluxe Paint brought out creativity in talented people. Art packages on the PC were more limited at the time and it's possible wouldn't have inspired the kind of doodles that lead to Lemmings.

Or at least not then, maybe it'd have come out some time later. Or maybe not, it might have missed it's time, we'll never really know.

But I don't really subscribe to the idea a game which "represents the Amiga" necessarily has to be exclusive. Shadow of the Beast is really just an Amiga hardware tech demo, but it also came out in a myriad of other formats. Does that make it less representative?

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by gimbal

Because the Amiga was available. I don't subscribe to the notion that the machine made it happen, it was still the people behind the keyboard and as intelligent skilled people would do, they used what was available to them. Just like the people who built Deluxe Paint did.

Credit where credit is due, lets not dilute it by claiming hardware did it.

I disagree. It was conceived on Amiga by a dev team that like Reflections and pretty much Psygnosis, lead on Amiga without too much consideration as to whether or not it could be done on other machines.

The game design, the 2 player mechanics with twin mice, the interface, all Amiga with cut down for other versions.

It showed a degree of foresight to consider what would look best for the Lemmings characters on EGA machines, but I think more than anything, they then looked at the weakest machine graphically and didn't want it to look horrific on that.

And the other clincher is Deluxe Paint 2 was used on Amiga with its built in animation features, if someone hadn't done that demonstration with it, its doubtful Lemmings would ever have happened.

In 1989, DMA weren't using anything else.

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by AestheticDebris

...But I don't really subscribe to the idea a game which "represents the Amiga" necessarily has to be exclusive.

i have the same opinion
also agree to the fact that Lemmings and Amiga was the perfect combo bitd

[Zak]

Thread has already been done, read my answer in it:

https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php...signature+game

[Bren McGuire]

so were other platforms like the ST do you think this game would have happened had they had an Atari ST? I don't think so buddy and this does not take credit off the creators but without the right tools this probably would not have happened and had stayed as an idea

i think you understate the importance of what the particular platform offered to creative minds

Originally Posted by gimbal

Because the Amiga was available.