Coder shows possible way in which some elements of Street Fighter 2 might be possible

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by DanScott

I'm not going anywhere near AGA I don't consider it as much of a challenge, given the wide sprites and the 2 x 16 colour playfields.

The video that this thread was started with, shows (in my opinion) the real way to go

However personally, I don't believe hardware sprites are the way to go for characters. The dahlsim "problem" on it's own is just one reason to avoid that!!

Even though you get your own palette offset for hardware sprites, I think for attached 16 colour sprites, they all have to come from the same bank of 16, so there's no way to pick a seperate palette for each fighters

Had a quick look at the SNES assets, looks like only 3 frames of the character exceed 128 pixels up to a maximum of 140. Reduce the size because it's not worth the hassle for a 16x16 missing sprite bit.

[DanScott]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

Had a quick look at the SNES assets, looks like only 3 frames of the character exceed 128 pixels up to a maximum of 140. Reduce the size because it's not worth the hassle for a 16x16 missing sprite bit.

actually dahlsim might not be a problem after all... even his long flying kick is only 119 pixels wide

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by DanScott

actually dahlsim might not be a problem after all... even his long flying kick is only 119 pixels wide

I count 140 pixels.

[Retro1234]

from the other thread

Originally Posted by Master484

Also about Dhalsim, the SNES version is a lot smaller than the arcade. Here is a 2x enlargened pic of the SNES version:



The biggest attack animation is only 140 pixels long. So with 2 sprites 128 pixels of it can be covered.

And if the frame is shortened with 12 pixels, then 2 sprites can handle it. And this is what I would do; all frames that don't "fit" would be shortened. But I think only Dhalsim and and maybe some Sagat frames need this.

Many frames that look long are actually quite short, such as Zangiefs jump kick that's just 104 pixels long. And many frames are in fact exactly 64 pixels; so many that I think the SNES version uses 64 pixel wide sprites too.

And even when shortening is needed, the hitboxes of the attacks can still be long, even if the images would be slightly shorter, so it won't affect gameplay in any way.

The only problem is when Dhalsim does the fireball and this long attack right after; now we need 3 sprites.

But it's easy to make a system where fireballs can be drawn as either sprites or BOBs, depending on case. This would cause some sudden color changes to the fireball, but it doesn't matter.

And also the shadows in the ground would be BOBs.

[DanScott]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

from the other thread

For that 140 pixel sprite, I would adjust his foot position by 12 pixels, so that the attack "move" has the same reach

[Adrian Browne]

I saw panza kick boxing on youtube- I assume the animation is roto-scoped? No scrolling in the game though it seems.

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by DanScott

For that 140 pixel sprite, I would adjust his foot position by 12 pixels, so that the attack "move" has the same reach

that is a great idea

[mcgeezer]

For doing the attack and defence hits one could use the approach in the attached PNG

Very easy to create a little script which reads the square coordinates for each frame and apply them into the game engine.

Easy peasy.

[Retro1234]

there is a way to view the Hit Boxes in one of the Arcade versions.

[ Show youtube player ]

[DanScott]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

there is a way to view the Hit Boxes in one of the Arcade versions.

[ Show youtube player ]

Yes, collision boxes are going to need to be as identical to the original as possible!

[kremiso]

Dhalsim in time

SF2 World Warriors (ocs)


SSF2 New Challengers (AGA 50hz)

[lmimmfn]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

there is a way to view the Hit Boxes in one of the Arcade versions.

[ Show youtube player ]

I posted earlier in the thread, theres a github with all the hitboxes for each fighter, both receive and giving.

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by kremiso

Dhalsim in time

SF2 World Warriors (ocs)


SSF2 New Challengers (AGA 50hz)

he's a growing boy

Originally Posted by lmimmfn

I posted earlier in the thread, theres a github with all the hitboxes for each fighter, both receive and giving.

can you post again I'd be interested to have a look.

edit: ok I have found it thanks that's really good https://doctorguile.github.io/ssf2st/compare.html

Originally Posted by lmimmfn

This might be useful, shows the hit boxes
https://doctorguile.github.io/ssf2st/compare.html

Skip the AI and just make it 2 player

[Master484]

Since you have 2 magentas in your palette, I wonder if one can be swapped for green, so Guile and Blanka make use of it (and other characters).

Yes, theoretically this is possible.

But in that palette, even if it has 16 colors, I still decided to ditch the greens, simply because most characters had either blue or red clothing. So to me it made more sense to maximize the blue and red hues. Blues and reds work well together, and in the shadows both could be hue shifted into the purples. And the purples in turn worked really well with the dark browns, which made the whole palette a one giant color ramp, where colors flowed from one hue to another really well. This is what made it possible to actually beat the SNES version graphics in many occasions.

Adding a green is problematic, because it could work with blue, but not so well with red. And if I added that green, it would be just one green. Guile would look better, but for all other characters I would now have a "problem color" that's hard to combine with the others. And if I made the green more skin color like, or maybe a little bit more "blueish green", so that it would work better with the other colors, then it could easily lose it "greenness", and now the colors of every character would get a greenish hue, especially so if two greenish colors were added instead of one.

So at this point, with the palette already "locked down" to this "red-blue-purple-brown" paradigm, I don't think that a green can be added without breaking something. So a new palette would be needed. But I'll leave the creation of such a thing to someone else.

---

Also I agree with Blanka, the way I colored it in the 16 color palette is maybe not the best solution. And the same goes for Honda and Ryu. They don't have to be colored like that; Ryu could use the yellows/lightest browns in the suit or even some detail could be sacrificed to get more white areas. Also the 8 color SNES version of Blanka that I posted earlier in this thread should have used "white + yellow" instead of "yellow + red" in the dithering.

I think I'll later post updated versions of all the 8 color characters to the graphics forum, to see how the full set of SSF2 characters looks in those 8 colors. And maybe I'll even update the 16 color versions, so that we can see the 8 and 16 color versions side by side. Who knows, maybe I'll even do 4 color versions, just to experiment.

HI Master - is there anywhere I can download your Ryu and Zangief sprite sheets to plug into my demo?

Zip file uploaded to the Zone. There are two big PNG images, one for each character. And only for Ryu there are some actual early spritesheet type images that I made back then.

[d4rk3lf]

Thanks Master.
That's another very helpful post.

Btw, one noob, technical question:
Why are we torturing ourselfs with 8 colors, when Mortal Kombat 2 (OCS) used 16 colors + 16 for the background, and is very smooth and very playable?
Is it because of parallax (that MK 2 doesn't have), or something else?

Please, keep up the great work!

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Thanks Master.
That's another very helpful post.

Btw, one noob, technical question:
Why are we torturing ourselfs with 8 colors, when Mortal Kombat 2 (OCS) used 16 colors + 16 for the background, and is very smooth and very playable?
Is it because of parallax (that MK 2 doesn't have), or something else?

Please, keep up the great work!

The answer is RAM.

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by Steril707

The answer is RAM.

But how MK2 did it with same amount of Ram (512+512kb)?
And it have even more characters (12 to select + 2 bosses, while SF2 had 8 to select + 4 bosses).

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

But how MK2 did it with same amount of Ram (512+512kb)?
And it have even more characters (12 to select + 2 bosses, while SF2 had 8 to select + 4 bosses).

No Parallax scrolling.
I remember reading somewhere they decompressed the frames on the fly, which while it has its advantages in saving ram, has its disadvantages with speed. I can't confirm but it doesn't like like MKII is running every frame - maybe 25 at most.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

But how MK2 did it with same amount of Ram (512+512kb)?

Well, look at it.
[ Show youtube player ]

Actually MK2 doesn't show many frames for its characters. It's barely animated. Same with Elfmania.
Also like McGeezer said above, it's only 25 frames.
A 50 fps nicely animated SF2 would play a lot better than this.

I'd take 7 colours with this over 16 colours and a choppy mess anytime.

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

And it have even more characters (12 to select + 2 bosses, while SF2 had 8 to select + 4 bosses).

The amount of characters available for selection is more a question of disk space and crunching.

[vulture]

I think MK2 plays every third frame, not even 25. Still, a great conversion, but not a good method for SF2.