Conversion Capers: Rygar

[sandruzzo]

If we use "only" 8 colors for each kind of enemy, we can have: 3 fully cookie-cut blitting, and 2 faster with 25% less blitter usage

[mcgeezer]

You’re gonna need some memory calculations, remember it has to fit in 512kb chip and 512 fast.

Look at the sprite sheet that is loaded, for a start that is going to need to be split down.

[sandruzzo]

Whta about doing iy for ECS?

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

We can keep 32 colors, we just need to optimeze blitter usage, and use more tricks for enemies.

There's no way to keep 32 colors and keep the parallax* unless you are redrawing the whole screen which in 32 colors will be slow as hell.

*of course you can use sprites but then it will make no sense to keep 32 colors.

Sandruzzo, I remember your demo at 16 colors + sprites for parallax was already slowing down with lots of stuff not implemented. I really don't see how can someone make it work at 32 colors. Of course I may bite my tongue, but this really sounds like typical overstating the ECS chipset power.

I am no artist (Anyone who has seen my games can affirm that ), but I'd be down to help scaling down graphics / make simpler backgrounds to make it fit on 16 colors (+ sprites for backgrounds)

With 8 + 8 it's possible to do it, but I don't think it will be good enough to achive requirement number 2 from McGeezer.


Edit: and McGeezer also pointed another obvious problem: Memory usage.

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

Whta about doing iy for ECS?

I'm not bothered whether it is for OCS or ECS.

Obviously I would help with the project but I wouldn't lead on it - I am willing to be proved wrong that it can't be done but I need convincing that I might be (wrong).

[Shatterhand]

Can we keep main hero + scrolling at 50fps and enemy movement at 25 fps?

EDIT: Yes, we can.

I am up to help with the graphics, and I am serious about it. I'd be doing it very slowly up until the end of the year, but after new years eve I could really do it pretty quickly. I am *not* the best guy to do that, but if no one steps up, I am willing to give it a try.

[sandruzzo]

@Shatterhand

Latest version was 64 colors. We could try some optimizations to keep 32 colors and 50hz scrolling. Think about that for big bobs we can use a trick to skip background restore. At least for one on ground and one that fly.

Btw my code wasn't optimize, so we have some edge here and with bobs' too

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

@Shatterhand

Latest version was 64 colors. We could try some optimizations to keep 32 colors and 50hz scrolling. Think about that for big bobs we can use a trick to skip background restore. At least for one on ground and one that fly.

Wait

Now I remember, you were using 4 sprites colors for the background, changing their colors using a copperlist, right?

I dunno... if you can do it with 32 colors, ok. But if we could get the proper speed at 16 colors, wouldn't be better? I think it's perfectly doable with 16 colors + 16 colors for sprites, whatever they may be used for.

If someone can provide me the graphics for AGA Rygar, I can try to make them work with the ECS chipset. Just give me the general direction needed (smaller height for background, 4 colors, 16 colors, 32 colors, whatever), and I can try to do it.

I am not a very good artist, but I think if all I need is to tone down, I can do it reasonably well. I can use Grafx2 very well at this point, and I think I know a thing or two about palette shading and stuff, and I also know how copper lists work.

I am serious, I am up to help with the graphics.

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

Wait

If someone can provide me the graphics for AGA Rygar

http://109.228.4.199/downloads/Rygar_IFF_Assets.7z

[sandruzzo]

@Shatterhand

Sure. On it. If mcgeezer would like to do so, we can optimize blitter usage to squeeze all from it on OCS

[sandruzzo]

Like Isaid before I would try to optimize enemies' colors usages to speed up blit ops

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

@Shatterhand

Sure. On it. If mcgeezer would like to do so, we can optimize blitter usage to squeeze all from it on OCS

Please do some memory calculations first. I'm telling you it won't be easy without a fair amount of work.

If I release the code I need convincing that the project will be seen through, the first hurdle of that is ensuring that it's even possible.

[sandruzzo]

@mcgeezer

With 1mb it can fit it?

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

http://109.228.4.199/downloads/Rygar_IFF_Assets.7z

Thank you mate.

You *really* need to calculate the memory usage though, Sandruzzo, as McGeezer said. 32 colors would mean still some big blobs memory-wise.

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

Thank you mate.

You *really* need to calculate the memory usage though, Sandruzzo, as McGeezer said. 32 colors would mean still some big blobs memory-wise.

You're welcome.

So here is something straight away to think about.

Unless you split the tiles, you're looking at 156Kb - splitting them per round may get save some ram so I would say 75kb to estimate for this - chip ram.

I had a quick look and you would need (at a minimum) 76Kb just to keep the core sprites in chip ram (Rygar and game Objects), this does not include any enemies which would need to be split out and loaded per round.

The music module is roughly 156Kb, the sound fx are around 100kb - so add 256kb right there (and no - you can't screw around with this).

You need 3 40Kb screen buffers bringing it to 120Kb.

CHIP RAM - 75 + 76 + 256 + 120 = 527Kb

That right there rules out OCS Amiga's if you run it at 32 colours (472kb if you run it at 16 colours).

None of that includes any backgrounds, or enemies.

Honestly, the game just cannot be done on an OCS Amiga...every calculation I do tells me I'm right and verifies my decision to do it on the AGA.

[sandruzzo]

@mcgeezer

Nail it! Maybe we should move on, and doing some OCS frendly port

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

@mcgeezer

Nail it! Maybe we should move on, and doing some OCS frendly port

Great!

So can we all now agree that porting the game to OCS Amigas is futile?

ECS may be possible, but a lot of effort required just for that.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

Great!

So can we all now agree that porting the game to OCS Amigas is futile?

ECS may be possible, but a lot of effort required just for that.

100% with you. Was great doing, but we have better stuff to do, isn't? Like more impossible ports to do

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

100% with you. Was great doing, but we have better stuff to do, isn't? Like more impossible ports to do

Excellent - glad we could put it to bed.

Now there's plenty of other ports to do for the Amiga that are entirely do-able.

[sandruzzo]

@mcgeezer

Words to live with Mate!