Acorn Archimedes? - Page 2

blade002 · 27 February 2010, 12:18

I remember seeing a review for a game that i think was called "Rotor" on the Archimedes in ACE magazine, but that was back in about 1990 so don't quote me on that.

_ThEcRoW · 27 February 2010, 15:19

Whether it has success or not, the Archie's have a decent browser(firefox).

filth · 27 February 2010, 16:04

...have you tried using it in practice, though?

asm1 · 27 February 2010, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by _ThEcRoW

Whether it has success or not, the Archie's have a decent browser(firefox).

Problem with that is you need a monster Risc PC or emulator to run it lol the earlier Arch doesn't have a hope

Photon · 28 February 2010, 00:54

Archimedes and RiscPC here

The ARM CPU, ARM BASIC, and later file systems are indeed singular in their perfection, and the computers were great, as Acorn's previous computer systems and later models. RiscOS is quite well-designed and fast, but for the most part it's a normal OS as we know it, with a few nice extra features.

For the most part they fell victim of standardization like all other computer makers. For sure they didn't have the head start and marketing clout of IBM and Microsoft, but certainly they should have made an affordable home model, and marketed it outside the UK.

They did make some standardization efforts, like reading PC disks, offering PC cpu cards, choosing VGA. But sadly the latter also meant that at the time, game programmers chose consoles over struggling with a graphics architecture that stole a large chunk of the CPU's power.

An effort at pandering to the dev community would have helped more applications get ported to it, too. Maybe it happened way after 1987 - as most people coming in a few years late into Archimedes, I have no clue as to what applications and programming languages were available for it, at all.

I don't even know a stand-alone assembler/editor for it - even though ARM BASIC is indeed lovely and allows proper assembler source snippets in it, writing line numbers and not offering macros or includes is a hindrance. If someone can link to one I might make a demo for the original Archimedes

filth · 28 February 2010, 11:48

Quote:

They did make some standardization efforts, like offering PC cpu cards

Actually this wasn't a standardisation approach as such. Given that RISC OS was written on ARM hardware, its code can't run natively on x86 hardware (only through machine-level emulation). The second processor slot of the RiscPC, for example, was designed for a specific type of 5x86 card which couldn't be utilised by RISC OS itself, but which could be passed through to a PC emulator within RISC OS, and utilised to run x86 code natively (ie, to install DOS/Win95/Win98) - sort of like a dedicated hardware emulator. This was, however, the sole use for the x86 processor card under RISC OS.

asm1 · 28 February 2010, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

They did make some standardization efforts, like reading PC disks,

They could also read and format Atari ST disks too

WHY on the other hand I'm not so sure

Charlie · 28 February 2010, 19:29

Fan-boy Mode: On

Wonderful machines:
As long as you don't use them for CPU-intensive tasks the OS (v6 - last update Dec '09) and apps available still make sense for day-to-day tasks - and you get your retro-fix while you're at it.
Yes, you need a VERY well-specced system to run Firefox but !Netsurf isn't a bad browser for most stuff.

There's every sign that up-to-date hardware is round the corner - maybe 'two more weeks' (TM).

Acorn should have been Europe's Apple but sadly had their own take on the C= like business model.

Do take a look @ The Qube RiscOS Server: Info and resources for all, with links to several other sites of interest.

Fan-boy Mode: Off

filth · 28 February 2010, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

The OS, RiscOS, was quite great as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie

The Qube RiscOS Server

Incidentally, I hate to join the ranks of the anal retentive trolls, but it's RISC OS, not RiscOS, RISCOS, Risc/OS, Riscos, or anything else. I say this for two reasons. First, all caps because it's an acronym (Reduced Instruction Set Computer Operating System, RISC OS) and secondly a space between the two parts because there is a MIPS operating system from the '80s called RISC/os, which is based on UNIX. Although it's clear to most in this thread what we're talking about, it may not be clear to everyone. When you're trying to preserve and promote a legacy system like this, the details matter - if we allow it all to blur together and be typoed out of existence, the yoof of tomorrow will have no hope.

Charlie · 01 March 2010, 17:16

Not an unfair point:

Despite it being a acronym I've always written it as RiscOS because:
-RiscPC (can't do a 1/2 space in a text editor).
-It's easier on the eye.

One of those debates that makes the platform 'special'.

filth · 01 March 2010, 17:26

Irrelevant. It is a proper noun; that is to say, the name of a product or service, and represents a unique entity. Some people write "Micro$oft" and, although I'm sure they doubtless find it amusing, it is not the name of the company. Proper nouns have a special protection in the English language. It would be like writing "Uk" and "Usa". While I'm aware that some words - like 'radar' and 'sonar' - have achieved the status of normal nouns, this is not the case with RISC OS. There is plenty of documentation of this issue and no room for debate. It is unambiguous and crystal clear.

As for RiscPC, yes, there is a half-space in there which is impossible to type. However, "RiscPC" is the accepted convention and is, again, a proper noun (being a product brand name) and so enjoys a certain grammatical protection. Just because a company chose "RISC OS" and yet "RiscPC" does not give you the freedom to edit those brands as you see fit, merely because they look "easier on the eye" to your opinion. Again, this isn't a point of debate, it's simply a fact. The most ludicrous justification I've read so far is that writing "RISC OS" looks like you're shouting

killergorilla · 01 March 2010, 18:12

Wow...

Whilst I appreciate the facts...

Does it really matter that much?

Charlie · 01 March 2010, 18:31

Shall we agree to disagree?

filth · 01 March 2010, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie

Shall we agree to disagree?

No, because according to Acorn's own documentation, it's RISC OS. It's got a name, that name is stated in facts and documentation and copyright licenses. It's absolutely, unequivocably, crystal clear. You're of course free to call it "Mince Pie OS" if you feel like it, but the fact remains that this is not its proper name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by killergorilla

Whilst I appreciate the facts...

Does it really matter that much?

Yes and no. In the grand scheme of things - starving children in Africa and whatnot - it doesn't matter a whit. In the context of enthusing over a product, yes it does. Speak to a copyright lawyer if you don't understand the importance of a brand. It might not matter as much if it were a brand long since dead, but in fact there's not only a very similar brand - RISC/os - but it's also not dead, what with two companies in a legal battle even as we speak, and a third developer community wading into the fray. So yes, a 'trivial' matter like the name does matter to a lot of people.

The final point is one of respect. If you respect a brand, a developer, a producer of whatever, then you make an effort to get it right. How would you feel if nobody bothered to learn your name? You're called Jason, and everyone keeps calling you James. It's a little bit rude, when it's such a simple thing to get right. Don't you agree, killergirl?

Photon · 02 March 2010, 01:05

Welcome to EAB, filth!

Example: demo titles (see BitWorld). Here it's important to be a stickler for spelling, since the titles go into a database and should be searchable. The spelling should be as the author supplied it, either displayed in the demo, written somewhere in the program, or the name of the executable or its folder on the original disk.

As another example, AmigaDOS is often referred to as AmigaOS, loosely meaning "the operating system for the Amiga", which has changed little since its inception apart from a slight name change.

But in casual discussion on a forum, it's not that important. Some may care and spell it right, some may even insert a gif of a half space when mentioning the RiscPC, or we could all take photos of brands and insert them as pictures when we dare mention them, to really get it right. Just typesetting it with the correct font and kerning would still not be quite correct, do you agree?

(At first I wrote a longer answer, because sometimes I try to be too balanced ... and wanted to be polite to filth.)

filth · 02 March 2010, 08:45

Point taken. All I'm saying is that you can't compare RISC/os to AMIGA/os.

filth · 02 March 2010, 08:51

Incidentally, for those interested in Acorn's legacy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8543513.stm (Hermann Hauser is the founder of Acorn, back in 1978)

28 February 2010, 00:54	#25
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	Archimedes and RiscPC here The ARM CPU, ARM BASIC, and later file systems are indeed singular in their perfection, and the computers were great, as Acorn's previous computer systems and later models. RiscOS is quite well-designed and fast, but for the most part it's a normal OS as we know it, with a few nice extra features. For the most part they fell victim of standardization like all other computer makers. For sure they didn't have the head start and marketing clout of IBM and Microsoft, but certainly they should have made an affordable home model, and marketed it outside the UK. They did make some standardization efforts, like reading PC disks, offering PC cpu cards, choosing VGA. But sadly the latter also meant that at the time, game programmers chose consoles over struggling with a graphics architecture that stole a large chunk of the CPU's power. An effort at pandering to the dev community would have helped more applications get ported to it, too. Maybe it happened way after 1987 - as most people coming in a few years late into Archimedes, I have no clue as to what applications and programming languages were available for it, at all. I don't even know a stand-alone assembler/editor for it - even though ARM BASIC is indeed lovely and allows proper assembler source snippets in it, writing line numbers and not offering macros or includes is a hindrance. If someone can link to one I might make a demo for the original Archimedes Last edited by Photon; 02 March 2010 at 00:32.

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27 February 2010, 12:18	#21
blade002 Zone Friend Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Australia Age: 50 Posts: 2,616	I remember seeing a review for a game that i think was called "Rotor" on the Archimedes in ACE magazine, but that was back in about 1990 so don't quote me on that.

27 February 2010, 15:19	#22
_ThEcRoW Amiga NetRunner Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Spain Age: 45 Posts: 941	Whether it has success or not, the Archie's have a decent browser(firefox).

27 February 2010, 16:04	#23
filth Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Finland Posts: 23	...have you tried using it in practice, though?

28 February 2010, 19:29	#28
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	Fan-boy Mode: On Wonderful machines: As long as you don't use them for CPU-intensive tasks the OS (v6 - last update Dec '09) and apps available still make sense for day-to-day tasks - and you get your retro-fix while you're at it. Yes, you need a VERY well-specced system to run Firefox but !Netsurf isn't a bad browser for most stuff. There's every sign that up-to-date hardware is round the corner - maybe 'two more weeks' (TM). Acorn should have been Europe's Apple but sadly had their own take on the C= like business model. Do take a look @ The Qube RiscOS Server: Info and resources for all, with links to several other sites of interest. Fan-boy Mode: Off

01 March 2010, 17:16	#30
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	Not an unfair point: Despite it being a acronym I've always written it as RiscOS because: -RiscPC (can't do a 1/2 space in a text editor). -It's easier on the eye. One of those debates that makes the platform 'special'.

01 March 2010, 17:26	#31
filth Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Finland Posts: 23	Irrelevant. It is a proper noun; that is to say, the name of a product or service, and represents a unique entity. Some people write "Micro$oft" and, although I'm sure they doubtless find it amusing, it is not the name of the company. Proper nouns have a special protection in the English language. It would be like writing "Uk" and "Usa". While I'm aware that some words - like 'radar' and 'sonar' - have achieved the status of normal nouns, this is not the case with RISC OS. There is plenty of documentation of this issue and no room for debate. It is unambiguous and crystal clear. As for RiscPC, yes, there is a half-space in there which is impossible to type. However, "RiscPC" is the accepted convention and is, again, a proper noun (being a product brand name) and so enjoys a certain grammatical protection. Just because a company chose "RISC OS" and yet "RiscPC" does not give you the freedom to edit those brands as you see fit, merely because they look "easier on the eye" to your opinion. Again, this isn't a point of debate, it's simply a fact. The most ludicrous justification I've read so far is that writing "RISC OS" looks like you're shouting

01 March 2010, 18:12	#32
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	Wow... Whilst I appreciate the facts... Does it really matter that much?

01 March 2010, 18:31	#33
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	Shall we agree to disagree?

02 March 2010, 01:05	#35
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	Welcome to EAB, filth! Example: demo titles (see BitWorld). Here it's important to be a stickler for spelling, since the titles go into a database and should be searchable. The spelling should be as the author supplied it, either displayed in the demo, written somewhere in the program, or the name of the executable or its folder on the original disk. As another example, AmigaDOS is often referred to as AmigaOS, loosely meaning "the operating system for the Amiga", which has changed little since its inception apart from a slight name change. But in casual discussion on a forum, it's not that important. Some may care and spell it right, some may even insert a gif of a half space when mentioning the RiscPC, or we could all take photos of brands and insert them as pictures when we dare mention them, to really get it right. Just typesetting it with the correct font and kerning would still not be quite correct, do you agree? (At first I wrote a longer answer, because sometimes I try to be too balanced ... and wanted to be polite to filth.)

02 March 2010, 08:45	#36
filth Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Finland Posts: 23	Point taken. All I'm saying is that you can't compare RISC/os to AMIGA/os.

02 March 2010, 08:51	#37
filth Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Finland Posts: 23	Incidentally, for those interested in Acorn's legacy: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8543513.stm (Hermann Hauser is the founder of Acorn, back in 1978)

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