Chicken and Egg solutions for A500 - Software transfer

[Photon]

I thought it would be a good initiative to gather misc. solutions spread out in other threads in one thread?

For those who have an Amiga with no harddisk interface, i.e. A500 and A1000 (only).

I realized I don't know enough about them, since I'm the nut who buys two Zip drives and a harddisk interface, or spends 200 EUR+ on a SCSI-IDE-CF solution and don't mind mucking about with hardware and software.

I thought it would go something like this:

Solution: A500 Clockport adapter + Subway USB
Install floppy supplied: YES
Requires kickstart: 3.1?
Price: 145 EUR + shipping
Description: You unplug the CPU and plug in the adapter with the CPU and Subway inserted, in the CPU socket. You put anything you want on a USB mass storage device and plug it into the Subway's USB socket. Pros: fast. Cons: requires OS3.1.
Links:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...roducts_id=137
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...roducts_id=137

The Install Floppy supplied bit is NO for those solutions that require someone to first get hold of an Amiga-formatted floppy with software on it, before they can transfer files.

[Photon]

Here's another one -

Solution: CrossDOS
Install floppy supplied: NO
Requires kickstart: 2.0
Price: A few EUR; someone to sell/send floppies to you with Workbench 2.1 on them.
Description: You copy files on a PC to a floppy, then boot the Workbench disk and start CrossDOS, and read 720K of files over to a blank disk. Pros: cheap, easy. Cons: slow, requires a kickstart circuit swap if you have kickstart 1.2/1.3. For sane use, an external Amiga floppy drive is required.
Links:
none.

There's Tom's IDE+RAM adapter, network over USB possibly, serial cable, etc. Can someone who has done it write how well it works, what to get etc here? For example, I'm totally unsure whether Amigakit has any software for serial or parallel cable transfer, whether WinUAE can talk to the serial port so you can use some Amiga modem software both ends, all these things.

[desiv]

And another:

Solution: Kryoflux
Install floppy supplied: Not required
Requires: Windows/Linux/OSX w/ USB port and a 3.5" PC floppy drive.
Price: Around 95 EUR; plus the price of a floppy drive and a power supply (if you don't have them). (And a few DSDD floppies )
Description: You attach a PC floppy drive to the Kryoflux board. Attach the power to the drive, attach the Kryoflux to the PC via USB. Then you can write Amiga native disk images.
Links:
http://webstore.kryoflux.com/catalog/

[desiv]

And another:

Solution: Serial w/ ADF Sender Terminal
Install floppy supplied: No - requires one to be made or sent to you by some kind soul. Link below.
Requires: Windows/Linux w/ serial port (USB to serial adapter will work) and a null modem cable.
Price: Freeware - USB to serial adapter can cost c. $8. Cost of the null modem cable. (And a few DSDD floppies )
Description: You need an Amiga boot disk with the transwarp software installed. You attach the Amiga serial to the PC serial with the null modem cable. You put a blank floppy in the Amiga and type a command telling it to wait for the transfer. You use ADF Sender Terminal (point and click software) to choose the disk image and you send the image from the PC to the Amiga floppy disk.
Links:
http://adfsender.stoeggl.com/adfsend...l/methods.html

[kipper2k]

Now that the Kryoflux can write ADF images it is definately the choice for being able to write Amiga images. A bit expensive to buy the bits but if you factor in the capability of writing your ipf images as well its worth it

[Jope]

Solution: Serial and Amiga Explorer
Install floppy supplied: A workbench floppy is needed.
Requires: A Windows PC with a serial port (USB to serial adapter will work) and a null modem cable.
Price: Free trial, 10e to register. The USB to serial adapter (if needed) and null modem cable can be had for around 30e, shop around.
Description: You need a work copy of your Workbench disk. You attach the Amiga serial to the PC serial with the null modem cable. Install Amiga Explorer on your Windows box, follow the instructions at http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-134
Links:
http://www.amigaforever.com/ae/

I wonder if it would be possible to guru the Amiga, start ROM Wack and transfer some kind of transfer utility via nullmodem from a PC....

[desiv]

And another:

Solution: HxC Floppy Emulator
Install floppy supplied: Not required
Requires: HxC, SD card.
Price: Around $115; plus the price of an SD card )
Description: Place ADF images on the SD card from your PC; plug HxC into your Amiga's floppy cable (replacing floppy drive); plug SD card into HxC, boot the Amiga, choosing an image using the HxC.
Links:
http://torlus.com/floppy/

(@wuselfuzz - Not sure. I have to admit, I LOVE that you can bootstrap an Apple II series with serial or even audio; no initial boot media required, no special hardware..)

desiv

[Photon]

This is great

desiv: Hehe, you modified Requires kickstart: there Well, the reason I list this specific requirement is as you probably guessed that if the software requires kick 2.0+ it usually becomes more hairy. It's the usual "where can I buy ROMZ" thing, usually you also have to buy Workbench disks then, perhaps from some other good vendor... I go on and on.

The hope was that any Amiga software required by the solution listed with kickstart requirements, and that the description would give an idea of the tech-wizardry the user would face.

I liked both serial cable links (thx desive/Jope), they explain the chicken and egg problem. There's another biting-its-own-tail problem, namely: CrossDOS requires WB 2.0 which requires kick 2.0* which FIRST requires someone to send you floppies and then you'd have CrossDOS, so serial software isn't needed then

This is also the reason for the "Install Floppy Supplied: YES / NO" - if one is supplied and it's all you need (WB disks aren't "supplied" from vendors), the chicken and egg problem is overcome. (Side note: is TYPE SER: RAM:filename possible with AE?)

* (I seem to remember 1.3 can run WB 2.0 CrossDOS, even if it can't run WB 2.0, can someone confirm/deny?)


Yes, Kryoflux looks good (like all PC-side write-floppy solutions they completely solve the chicken-and-egg problem)! As does the HxC it seems.

Would be nice if those solutions were so to speak productified. Just the board is indeed fine for the tech gang who might indeed have a power supply and a PC floppy drive lying on some shelf. But a floppy drive in a case with the board inside and shipped with a power supply and an install disk, that would be something I.e. plug in and use kind of thing.


Thank you gentlemen, more please

[Photon]

desiv: From method A1 there, I would say that the serial solution

Requires kickstart: 1.2+

and

Install floppy supplied: NO - not needed, only a floppy with the TYPE command (and RAMdisk-handling) needed (which could simply be the Workbench disk).

Great! Couldn't find a USB to 25pin serial cable on Amigakit, though. Maybe on eBay, hmpf.

Right now the HxC SD version for 70 GBP=87 EUR looks perhaps most attractive as the ultimate solution, as it can be quite involved to first get prepare a disk with the right stuff for disk transfer etc. using serial.

But I don't know it well enough. Do you really only have to drag .ADFs to the SD card on PC, plug the HxC in the Amiga floppy cable and boot the Amiga? Or is there a setup procedure?

[desiv]

Originally Posted by Photon

desiv: From method A1 there, I would say that the serial solution
Requires kickstart: 1.2+

Yeah, I just took it out, as in those situations, it didn't matter which version of kickstart.
Although to be honest, I didn't notice it said "kickstart" at first. So I went back and edited it to remove the "kickstart". ;-)

Originally Posted by Photon

Install floppy supplied: NO - not needed, only a floppy with the TYPE command (and RAMdisk-handling) needed (which could simply be the Workbench disk).

I was thinking that ANY floppy required would be an "Install floppy" from a new users perspective.

As for the cable, you need 2 things. You need a USB to serial (which is I think always a 9 pin serial). Then you need a 9pin to 25pin null cable (or regular cable with a null adapter).
(If you have friends who worked on routers/switches, they probably have boxes with serial cables still around somewhere... ;-)

Originally Posted by Photon

Right now the HxC SD version for 70 GBP=87 EUR looks perhaps most attractive as the ultimate solution,

It is a nice option. I like floppies, and I've seriously considered it.. ;-)
The initial serial can be tricky. I've sent out an Amiga formatted disk with everything needed for serial transfer to a few people already..

Originally Posted by Photon

...Do you really only have to drag .ADFs to the SD card on PC, plug the HxC in the Amiga floppy cable and boot the Amiga? Or is there a setup procedure?

I haven't used the HxC, so I'm not sure on that one.. I understood it was pretty simple, but perhaps someone who owns one can chime in...

desiv

Come to think of it, Amigakit (if they're reading) should come up with an easy-serial kit. A boot floppy with the Amiga software, a cable with a 25pin end and a USB serial adapter, and then some instructions (with links to the PC software). They could even "pair" with Amigakit and bundle AmigaExplorer instead...

[Jope]

Originally Posted by Photon

CrossDOS requires WB 2.0 which requires kick 2.0* which FIRST requires someone to send you floppies and then you'd have CrossDOS, so serial software isn't needed then

* (I seem to remember 1.3 can run WB 2.0 CrossDOS, even if it can't run WB 2.0, can someone confirm/deny?)

Crossdos first shipped with the OS in release 2.1. However it was always also a standalone commercial program, predating release 2.1. So, if you have a suitably old version of CrossDos, it will happily run under 1.3.

Naturally you'll still have to get it to the computer first, which makes life difficult.

This coverdisk has a release that runs under 1.3, for example:
http://amr.abime.net/issue_196_coverdisks

[Photon]

Cool

After some dead links and stuff, it's now in The Zone.

[Retro1234]

I seem to remember PPaint maybe all not all versions contained all the necessary Crossdos libs etc except the mount list but you can type this yourself - could get you started