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Old 21 October 2020, 21:33   #741
rare_j
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
Going by this logic, the Amiga would not have received any conversion of any arcade game ever.
Just seems a bit like a mouse trying to eat an elephant.
Neo Geo Pocket Color version might work.
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Old 21 October 2020, 21:45   #742
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Originally Posted by rare_j View Post
Just seems a bit like a mouse trying to eat an elephant.
Neo Geo Pocket Color version might work.
you know how a mouse eat an elefant? A bite at the time - a refrigerator helps too;
hence, given this, you might end up having something that will be a VERY satisfying port or reinterpretation on the playability side, and will satisfy most of the requirements on the graphic side of it too, as long as you don't expect an 1:1 port - might take years, might not be from the same coder but will be there - see in example Rygar

Last edited by saimon69; 21 October 2020 at 21:50.
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Old 21 October 2020, 21:57   #743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rare_j View Post
Neo geo sprite limitations:
No more than 96 sprites can be rendered by scanline.
Even if the VRAM has space for 448 sprites, only 381 can be displayed per frame.
1048576 tiles can be addressed (20 bits, 128MiB of graphics), if more tiles are needed then the sprites graphics need to be bankswitched

Are we really still talking about an amiga version of this?
It is obtusely a bad coding approach...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
Going by this logic, the Amiga would not have received any conversion of any arcade game ever.
+1
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Old 21 October 2020, 22:31   #744
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This thread has been rumbling along for three years and there's been some top tech chat. It does seem evident though, that you can't squeeze a battleship into a phone box.
If all the pace and chaos of Metal Slug can be captured on an OCS A500 1Mb, then I would be delighted to be proved wrong.
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Old 21 October 2020, 22:49   #745
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https://atariage.com/forums/topic/31...t-big-attempt/
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Old 21 October 2020, 22:50   #746
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You are right that this cannot be done.
But the reason why you give is faulted, imo.

Nobody expects a 1:1 conversion from the original.
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Old 21 October 2020, 23:17   #747
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Look, attempting this game on the Amiga, it's just suicide (waste of time), and as a coder of games you get the wrath of the community for producing shite - it demotivates you.

MS was released in 1996 on hardware that was way ahead of its time, any Amiga port would never be as good as the MVS or the ports that came after it which were much more powerful than the stock Amiga's released by Commodore.

If the expectation is to release a technical demo on the stock Amiga to compete with what we see on the STE here then great, we coders like a challenge so someone setup a Kickstarter for some prize money and I'm up for it.

or..... we can do something else that will see the light of day.
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Old 21 October 2020, 23:29   #748
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Metal Slug is at the end a super charged version of Gun Force (by the same team before they split btw) so is possible to have a game with similar mechanics and touch just the same principles without redo MS;

I can see also how a Chibi approach (smaller caricatural characters) might help in having more stuff on screen that take less space, a bit like on Cannon Fodder (that is definitely too small, would say 24x16)

Last edited by saimon69; 21 October 2020 at 23:43.
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Old 22 October 2020, 10:24   #749
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But damn, guys, why isn't there even a lousy moving background plus BOBs demo out yet to prove what you are talking about.
Truthfully, there's three reasons I've not made anything for this game/project:
  1. Personal reasons mean the actual time I spend on any form of hobby coding has been extremely limited for most of the year
  2. I don't really like Metal Slug that much as a game, but making anything approaching a real port (cut down to Amiga size/capabilities) would mean an awful lot of effort. Especially since many people have already made clear they don't think any port will be good enough regardless. And... They're mostly right. You can 100% make a port of this game that gets at least most of the gist of the game across and that plays nicely. But it will be very far from the actual game. Kind of like how C64 arcade ports are often nice games, but nothing like the original.
  3. If I'm going to make a game, I want to make my own. Ports are great and I have a lot of respect for Pink & McGeezer (to name just two) for making awesome ports. But honestly, I'd rather work on something I thought up myself. Even if only not to have to live up to the legacy of the game I'm porting.

Last edited by roondar; 22 October 2020 at 11:00.
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Old 22 October 2020, 12:00   #750
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Okay, here we go..

[ Show youtube player ]

Took some of the GBA game assets and put them into Inviyya.

This is just a 16 color mockup, I cannot be arsed to change my engine setup and toolchain to do the 5bpl/32colours that I would go for...


BUT: it would look really a lot better in 32 colors.


add/edit: and a screenshot..
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Last edited by Steril707; 22 October 2020 at 12:09.
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Old 22 October 2020, 12:03   #751
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I love it!
The ship flying over it made my day
(on a side note, that green palette kinda works for the ship too, interesting look)
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Old 22 October 2020, 12:10   #752
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I love it!
The ship flying over it made my day
(on a side note, that green palette kinda works for the ship too, interesting look)
Haha, yep. Thats true..
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Old 22 October 2020, 12:18   #753
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Awesome work Steril
Love the 16 color look, and smoothness.
You engine is great.
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Old 22 October 2020, 12:25   #754
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Originally Posted by d4rk3lf View Post
Awesome work Steril
Love the 16 color look, and smoothness.
You engine is great.
Thanks man, appreciated...

I didn't optimize anything about the palette, though. I think you could get a lot of mileage by just tweaking the colours a bit.

This is 16 colours with a tweaked palette I showed earlier in this thread:



This is running in 50 fps. Since MS is 30 frames anyway, we could go down to 25 fps, up the colours to 32, and still have ample time to blit lots of shit unto the screen imo.

This is the kind of colours dynamics you get with 32 colours:

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Old 22 October 2020, 12:30   #755
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Pretty cool, Steril!! Love it.
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Old 22 October 2020, 12:57   #756
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Hah...Metal Invviya is rather cool

But - is it possible to actually make it sing & dance like the original does? If the speed in the video is indicative it'd be more of a slo-mo MS. The 32 colour gfx is good enough and rather impressive, but unless you can capture the frantic pace of the original it wouldn't make for a good port.

I think it's a good time to remind ourselves what the OG gameplay actually looks like:

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 22 October 2020, 13:01   #757
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@Steril707: that's a really cool mockup
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Old 22 October 2020, 13:08   #758
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Originally Posted by dreadnought View Post
I think it's a good time to remind ourselves what the OG gameplay actually looks like:
It seems to me that very dramatic music, and soundFX gives a lot of "fast paced" feel, and even here, there's slight slowdown, when lot's explosions is going on.

I think no one expect 1:1 port on Amiga 500, but I (personally think) with some compromises, the fast paced feel could be very similar.

I'll repeat again.
I think Ruff'n'Tumble is a perfect example on how Metal Slug could look and feel on A500. And Ruff doesn't lack speed, or gameplay feel, only lacks parallax (for me, not a big deal), and imho, it's very very impressive game on A500, in all aspects.
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Old 22 October 2020, 13:09   #759
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Originally Posted by dreadnought View Post
Hah...Metal Invviya is rather cool

But - is it possible to actually make it sing & dance like the original does? If the speed in the video is indicative it'd be more of a slo-mo MS. The 32 colour gfx is good enough and rather impressive, but unless you can capture the frantic pace of the original it wouldn't make for a good port.

I think it's a good time to remind ourselves what the OG gameplay actually looks like:

[ Show youtube player ]
Short answer: no....

Problem lies within the fidelity provided by those insane amounts of animation in the original arcade game, imo.

First off, I'd go with the GBA version of the game, which has a lot less stuff going on, visually. But also in that version you'd need to cut down the amount of animations, I fear..

[ Show youtube player ]

Other than that and the parallax you could do a very proper version of that version of the game on the A500, imo.
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Old 22 October 2020, 13:18   #760
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I think the pace might be possible to be improved (as in faster movement, faster animations), but the numbers of frames & objects are not going to happen. Same with the parallax levels/style.
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