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Old 03 October 2020, 10:24   #121
Promilus
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It's hard when somebody who wants support in hard time suddenly starts being one. That's exactly what happened on ppa and was twisted on exxos to support his side of the story. Community isn't at fault. Just drop that matter.
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Old 03 October 2020, 10:29   #122
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I read the ppa forum in realtime and all I can say that its forum is a total havoc.. that thread went into 3 paths:

1. people who got it
2. people who discussed in another weird way. damn almost got a religious feeling
3. people without clue.

might be translationerrors but yeah it was total nuts and I lost all kind of trust on the ppa.pl forum there.. I never ever seen a forum that is "local" that had so much hostality etc. never seen it in any other nonenglishspeaking forum.. it was just crazy
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Old 03 October 2020, 10:32   #123
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I do not know if it is a cultural thing or so. but yes it was a trainwreck and a perfect example how "not to handle it" and I must say can also be a very reason why all this happend.

I had some polish persons contacting me in private and telling that yeah this is the ppa way and they do not like it.

Last edited by Chucky; 03 October 2020 at 11:14.
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Old 03 October 2020, 11:29   #124
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not to be dickheads...
I understand that one can get pissed off by the behavior of _some_ people and even a whole forum. I also read most of the forums and find some very informative and full of well behaved people, while other forums range from "sometimes unpleasant" to "total mess".

However, the so-called community is much more than what surfaces in those forums, chat groups, and the like.

So just for the record, I find most other people interested in Amigas to be well-behaved and respectful. Thus, it's not a problem of 'the community' per se, but mostly of some individuals who don't respect the work, rights, and feelings of the ones who contribute thr the most.

Just my 2 cents...
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Old 03 October 2020, 11:34   #125
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I read some forums.. (I frequent less) and there is a interesting diffrenece out in the world.. but this can also be stuff lost in translation and different ways of people in different countries..
ofcourse. 1 loud person makes lots of more noise than the 100 quiet ones.

in facebook. I have usually like 5-10 different messengerwindows up at all times with people talking to me. and there I can hear alot of stuff that isn't visible on any forum or post... most silent persons just simply do not want to write stuff as they simply do not want to get into a word-fight with the loud persons. (and I who believed only Swedes are like that :-D )
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Old 03 October 2020, 11:35   #126
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(and i who believed only swedes are like that :-d )
:-d
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Old 03 October 2020, 11:36   #127
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Well I do not really think you tracked the whole (closed not fast enough) topic or just lost something in translation. You can't put a blame on polish community for not joining crusade. There were some nasty posts, there were some posts with merit. He disregarded both which lead to sh*tstorm. It all looks like he went there to get attention - he got it. Bounds offers were removed and his actions condemned. Some ppl pointed out there's really no valid proof Bound indeed produce those boards (despite his claim of "infinite number of boards") - that's a post with merit. There's no real proof. There's bounty to get such a board on exxos. AFAIK nobody got it. So any evidence presented is circumstantial. And when pointed out that reverse engineering pcb isn't a crime in most law doctrines (and even international law doesn't present much coverage to protect pcb, just chips itself or software) he lashed out calling ppl idiots or thief supporters (and I don't even want to quote things he said on exxos). That's just the type of unacceptable behavior which led Gunnar being banned right here. And I do feel sorry for Stephen but he also has problems dealing with ppl with different opinion than his own. Something you found annoying when dealing with apollo team, right?
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Old 03 October 2020, 11:43   #128
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I do not think he have problem with dealing with people of a different opinion. but it is all about how it is said. here however I cannot say if it is stuff lost in translation. it is also a drawback when using chrome to autotranslate. you do now know if a test is written in english or native-language so you do not know if it is a tranlsationissue etc..

that thread was a trainwreck however.. (on fire) and you could read the attitude in the thread that it was just horrible. never I have seen that attitude in a "national" forum (as it is anyway. being polish) this I do not know if it is that the polish people maybe have a more harder tone when talking generally or what. but it sure set the standard.
(I mean, never heard a polish guy saying one sentence without "kurwa" in atleasy 5 ways)



and apolloteam nah I do not have that much with an issue with them (except gunnar that seems to like to spread false info about me..)
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Old 03 October 2020, 12:08   #129
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not to be dickheads...
We are doomed.
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Old 03 October 2020, 12:21   #130
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Anyway.. about ppa most was a weird thinkg of missinterpreting "not shipping" to poland with "not selling to poland" that is two big differences. and I guess THAT is something that fucked up that thread totally.

anyway. lets talk about TF1260 instead and nothing else around it. it gives nothing and just makes a mess.

I still haven't given up the possability.. but as it is now I feel it is somewhat up to the community to prove there are people who actually would love such a solution..
my guess it would be "as it is now" period.

my 2 boards works just fine as it is. not at top speeds but well ok anyway for me. even if I got a Warp. I run it at 50MHz most anyway. see no real need for more.
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Old 03 October 2020, 13:23   #131
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Anyway.. about ppa most was a weird thinkg of missinterpreting "not shipping" to poland with "not selling to poland" that is two big differences. and I guess THAT is something that fucked up that thread totally.

anyway. lets talk about TF1260 instead and nothing else around it. it gives nothing and just makes a mess.

I still haven't given up the possability.. but as it is now I feel it is somewhat up to the community to prove there are people who actually would love such a solution..
my guess it would be "as it is now" period.

my 2 boards works just fine as it is. not at top speeds but well ok anyway for me. even if I got a Warp. I run it at 50MHz most anyway. see no real need for more.
I for my part would really love such a board. I am prepared (and always have been) to wait till it's finished and running stable (I'll avoid the term "polished" :-). And I'm prepared to pay a fair price for all the hard work such a project asserts to its creator.
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Old 03 October 2020, 14:01   #132
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I think PPA is full of autistic programmer types that start debating about semantics not able to see the full picture obvious to everyone with a common sense. While Stephen understands his personal character he sometimes can't help himself but set himself up for situations which can leave him vulnerable for getting more upset.
From what I can understand from these posts the TF1260 is more or less finished and it would revolutionize the Amiga hardware scene. Even the most autistic types should be able appreciate and support that.
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Old 03 October 2020, 14:10   #133
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I can only comment on the TF360, but they have the same father
I used mine extensively running 060 demos at 75Mhz (max speed it could run for me) and I was very happy with the stability. Probably just had a few crashes over many many hours, so what is normally expected with AMIGA
I could get some crashes when changing CPU speed, so that could be the 'Set CPU Speed' program rather than the accelerator. (I love on the fly speed changing).
At 75Mhz I suffered some freezing when the case lid was on and the house hit a rare (for UK) internal temp of 30 deg C.
But with normal UK temps it was fine. I think it was more the RAM CPLD getting too hot. I have a small Raspberry Pi fan glued to my Rev 6 and it runs really cool.

On the TF1260 I expect especially with a Rev 6 installed, it would be better to cool the CPLDs.

With the CD32 the CDROM does not work (currently) with the TF360, so could be difficult to release as is, but the community would be very happy with the TF1260 as is, I am sure.
Demos run great at 75Mhz and I have not needed more than 64mb.
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Old 03 October 2020, 14:17   #134
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the TF360 and 1260 have the same base.. so they are very identical yes.

and for me demos etc run just fine. and I usually run at 50-66 (62) MHz my board had issues at 75 often.. guess it is a softwarething..

I know 360 have CD issues. sadly I guess this will not be fixed. IF it would get out in the bluye it is what is available now.. meaning no CD for CD32 and no burstmodes. but other than that. it works just fine. especially now when the 3.9 issue is solved (it it sure was a weird one) stephen even got hos mediator to work with it (where mediator sure have a weird bus)

but yes. even wiyt its current firmware I think it works just fine and most would be happy with it.

andwith an LC. it would kick most 030 solutions to a "030" price.. I had planned to do a livestream about it with LC and what you can expect with issues and stability. but current situation have made I haven't done one. (or actually even started to plan a script for it)
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Old 03 October 2020, 23:52   #135
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Well.. Now even ppl in the Amiga community (as opposed to ebay vultures) are asking for €350 for a rev6 060 (which really must be the worst performance /dollar for a CPU ever :-) ) And even old XC early revs have become scarce and expensive..
Problem is of course, even noble Amigans now wont (shouldnt!) sell for decent prices because then vultures will buy them cheap and shamelessly resell at double the price.. so now the cat is out of the bag so to speak..

There were only a few streams of cpus in to the community in the first place. Chucky's dried up afaik, tbtorro probably has some source and Stachu has a source. People also bought cpus commonly from funkward tech which got outed from a blog and bought empty outside Ebay.

Basically people who for some reason did not buy there cpus at that point and were planning to get a cheap new 060 card have only theirselves to blame to be honest. When Chucky still was selling the cpus frequently he referred to them as unobtanium. When that blog post came out there were like 300 cpus available from funkward tech and it took a month or two for someone to buy the remainder of their stock outside ebay.

Anyway now it seems stachu is the only one selling cpus and even he only has rev5s for sale. The other cpus available are either from their personal stock that are only sold because of the demand or they are from the available old stock sources that are pricey. Stachu doesn't seem to be on a mission to drive the prices down and all the other cpus coming in are from these expensive NOS sources, which pretty much mean that these chips set the price ceiling of the community. It's also easy to see that the community shot itself in the foot with the Heisener frenzy and all it's fall out. It was clear to see that they were dug out from Alibaba and now every vlogger and their friends just started flooding the same sellers with RFQs which resulted in the current situation where it's cheaper to get 060s from the States than from China. Now, I hope that the most desperate people with a lot of money have made their purchases and since no new cards have actually been released this year that the ripples might calm a bit and lead to better prices from China but I would imagine it takes more than a couple of months to have an effect. Still a TF at ~200+350 or a Warp at 500+350 is a good thing for the community as you still would get better cards than available now for a lesser price. With an LC you could get the TF also to compete with the 030 cards which would be a very welcome development.
There have been some sources available even after the Heisener thing and it would be easiest if someone in the community would just make a plunge and buy the cards when they become available but when the prices are in an upward curve it's hard to sell yourself the idea of buying near the new market top let alone finance for it. I think the American ebay seller had about 60 cpus available for 200usd before an OEM purchased most of the stock. I tried to get TF people to buy. There were 100ish(?) rev5s available from funkward tech at about the same time for 100eur each and were probably available for two thirds of that. It's frustrating but I'm sure that the builders don't feel like investing thousands or tens of thousands of euros for cpus is what they want to put their money and time in.

I guess we can only hope that there will be a new or a renewed steady source of used 060 cpus but there's already a lot of connected people who have done it already working on it and there's no results to show yet. If vampires sell at thousands then it's fair to believe that there would be a demand for thousands of 060s should the cards be available. Perhaps some of that can be alleviated through LC cpus but since (as far as I understand) most of the used chips coming to the market are either rev6 or rev5 and the speed of them being available is withering I can't really see rev6 cpus being available under 200 eur again.
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Old 04 October 2020, 18:59   #136
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The TF1260s even with cheap LC cpus would have been a complete game changer. 060 speed for everyone priced at 200€. i do wonder what issues are left in the design.
As you know, I also have the two prototypes, and from my point of view, there were only minor tweaks left to do, such as burst-mode ram access, a trace patch and a few other things like that. Perhaps a slightly higher maximum speed (although as far as I am concerned 75-80 mhz is already pretty good.)

The card is super stable and I dare say, more stable than the 536, and those who used the latter know that is a pretty good benchmark.

As I wrote before, the LC060 is a fantastic CPU that should not be dismissed. I made a demo CF card to show that virtually everything works, except Quake, and even the latter could be made to work by a skilled coder. They easily clock to 75 Mhz, some up to 80.

The only caveat is finding the correct executables. But imagine this, ScummVM games running at full speed in 256 colours with sound and everything.

The price would have been an average price that people pay for a 1230 card, perhaps less, but at 5x the performance.
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Old 05 October 2020, 11:48   #137
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I was really looking forward to the TF360 & 1260 so I'm gutted that they're not happening
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Old 05 October 2020, 15:12   #138
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@alenppc - can you post a bustest screenshot of the TF1260 at 75 or 80mhz?
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Old 05 October 2020, 16:25   #139
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Here is a screen shot of my TF1260 set at 75mhz
Attachment 69071
I think he mean a screenshot of this program - chip and fast would be interesting.
http://aminet.net/package/util/moni/bustest
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Old 05 October 2020, 16:33   #140
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what sets an 060 board apart from another is its memory access speed when clocks are the same, so its interesting to compare an Apollo to a Blizzard to the Warp to the TF.

This is why Matze's forthcoming TK-68060 is so interesting, because its ram speed is so much faster than classic accelerator boards (even CSMk3 and WarpEngine). For stuff like Quake and Diablo it makes all the difference.
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