Gimbal Games Inc.

gimbal · 08 November 2007, 02:52

No, I did not start a company, I just needed a dorky titel for this thread to match my own uber-dorkness. Its been a long while since I last posted in this here forum and it has grown a little silent in general, so I decided to tell you all a little about what I have been up to...

To put it as up-frontly as possible, I built and *finished* a game. I have to emphasize *finished*, because that is a first for me. And to make Zetr0 go into shock and horror, I did *not* build it in Java.

Well let me give a little background before I unveil the name which some of you will find quite familiar. I am thinking especially Fred the Duck is going to frown, as well as other MSX enthusiasts (small hint to begin with). A long time ago I got interested in developing for PDA devices. That interest quickly awakened another interest that I had put to rest, which is game development. PDA's are becoming more and more popular and I saw the benefit in learning how to develop for them.

So I did a java project for school first which was a success (although Java is nowhere near mature enough yet on pocketpc platforms). I envisioned creating, or recreating, simple old school games that can run on these devices. The Amiga for example has had so many simple yet addictive little games that would thrive on a PDA device. Logical, Plotting, Puzznic, Clockwiser, Gem'X, Ishido, Othello Killer, the possibilities are vast (Captive would be at the top of my list if it wasn't so damned huge).

I also envisioned myself building a simple framework (I hate to use the word "Engine", it is terribly overhyped today) that would allow me to build these games for both WinCE and Win32 platforms, with some minor tweaks between the two platforms if needed.

Well, I did just that. I dubbed it "HaywirePDA" or "Hwpda" for short (Haywire was the name of the "engine" I had continuously and endlessly in development when I was into game programming during my earlier developer years) and it actually allows me to make my games compile and run for both PocketPC platforms and regular Windows desktop platforms. The first game that I wanted to develop was going to prove that it worked... however eventually I realized that the game could simply not work on a PDA because of the limitations of input that would make playing it impossible. So I made that a PC only project. It allowed me to see what I did wrong in the framework and now Hwpda 2.0 is built, ready and functional. Note also that the code is setup such that all the pocketpc OS specific stuff is in one class, so in theory it is possible to port it to other PDA platforms as well...

So so so so, what is the game that I developed. Well it is not an Amiga game but an MSX game like I had already hinted at. It is a little addictive platform puzzler created by Konami in 1985 for the MSX1. In it you play an archeologist who has to battle through 45 pyramids, evading ghosts and traps and picking up all diamonds to be able to proceed to the next level. Yes ladies and gentlemen, it is a little game called King's Valley.

Now I chose this game for one simple reason: it is simple, but still challenging enough to make so that I could learn a lot from it. I have always been digging into the technical details of all aspects of game programming, but actually putting one together was never one of my stronger points. I needed practice and this game gave me all the practice I needed with doing simple 2d collision detection, scrolling levels, processor independent framerates and movement, monster AI, sound programming and other tricks of the trade. It took me almost three months of development (three months spread over like five months though), but last week I finally managed to squash the last know bug and I feel it is mature enough to put to a beta test. I am preparing to do just that, once I figure out a place online where I can safely store the files and I do some minor fixes to some of the levels (my previous infinite webspace sadly has been taken away from me, sob sob).

It is a port of the old game (same graphics and sounds and for the most part even gameplay), but I did some minor tweaks.

- gameplay is a little faster. In some situations the game is a little harder, in some situations a little easier.
- ghosts have more behaviors (they can even be scared of you for example), each ghost has his own personal tricks.
- levels bigger than one screen scroll in my version, no switch-when-hitting-the-edge madness
- when a sword is falling and it hits a ghost in the head, the ghost is killed and the sword does a funny bounce
- each fourth level you get a code so you can continue from that point. In the original you got a code only after completing 15 levels!!!
- you can turn off the music! The game has only one tune and it CAN become a little repetitive after a while...

I did some more little tweaks, but for the largest part the game is equal to the original. The levels are completely the same, only I removed the ability to go back to completed ones (because of my more linear approach with codes every few levels).

This post is beginning to become alarmingly long now, so I will wrap it up by saying that I am already working on the second game that IS going to work on a pocketpc (windows mobile 5 and up) and on regular computers, and you can multiplay with two players using either platform through a network. It is a remake of an Amiga game this time, but I will not reveal which one yet, you all will have to wait for the second thread

The game is already a good way into the development cycle though and I have already seen it move without crashing. It is simpler than King's Valley and the framework is already finished, so it should not take me so long to get it to a beta stage.

Some technical details:

Built using Visual Studio 2005 pro (legal!), Visual C++

Graphics: on pocketpc the GAPI (game API) is used, on windows DirectDraw

Memory usage: only a few megabytes. I try to keep it under 6mb usage, most of it is used by music and sounds. On PDA devices music is loaded in the background even while the game is already playing if that is what I desire, because loading from a flash card can be quite slow and can seriously slow down the startup time of a game. This allows me to load music for the next level in the background while you are still playing another level.

processor requirements for PDA: ARM architecture. 100mhz should be enough even. I use a 300mhz device to test though.

Screen: 16 bits or 32 bits video mode, the framework can do both landscape and portrait rendering on PDA devices (not as easy as it sounds for games...). When compiled for the desktop, the framework will double all pixels. Otherwise the window would be only 240*320 / 320*240

Currently I do not support other video resolutions just yet. I need to leave some features for Hwpda 3.0

It is not much effort for me to add support for other bitdepths should I have been mistaken in the capabilities of most devices in use today.

Enough talk. I hope to have the game for you all to pick apart ASAP. The beta version will have only the first 16 levels though (but you get a code so you can continue from level 16 when I finish more). Of course if I don't find a proper webspace soon, I can always email it to those who are interested. Perhaps even the zone can be of help there.

Zetr0 · 08 November 2007, 03:14

*Zetr0: Applauds*

Indeed, great work sir... great work indeed... and using something other than java.... clearly thats showing off no less

well done! i look forward to seeing it...

turrican3 · 08 November 2007, 03:52

good job !
And king's valley is a great game then a good first choice, but is it king's valley 1 or 2 ?
can't wait to know wich amiga you will convert

Retro-Nerd · 08 November 2007, 11:01

Nice choice for a remake. I would prefer King's Valley 2 for the miggy, but i like those single screen platformer.

gimbal · 08 November 2007, 13:32

It's King's Valley 1, because that gave me a feeling of nostalgia

I only played the sequel once or twice. I don't know why I picked that game, but as soon as I decided to start the project it was clear to me it had to be this game.

> clearly thats showing off no less

No, it is me admitting that Java on pocketpc sucks

I'm a firm believer that professional game development with Java is more than possible, but in this case I only had the choice between Visual C++, C# and VB.NET. And since I don't want to force people to install .NET bloatware on their PDA and I wanted to keep it all at least marginally portable, C++ was the best choice.

Also what I want to clear up, because it may have gotten lost in that huge opening post, is that King's Valley is pc only, not for pocketpc platforms. I was planning on making it possible to play the game using the standard pocketpc buttons in landscape mode, but I decided against it because on a lot of devices, including my own, those buttons are not suited for games and are even a little too fragile to be used continuously for long periods of time. Games I develop to be run on a pocketpc will use the stylus only. This gives me some head aches still, because how am I going to let the user input an IP address and port number for example in the game I am developing now... I guess I will have to use a setup dialog before the game starts so I can use the onscreen SIP keyboard.

edit: yay, my webspace problems are solved. I never put any thought into it, but I have 200mb webspace with my internet company so I can put all my files there.

Rebel-CD32 · 13 November 2007, 03:43

This sounds like a game that wouldn't be too hard to port to the GP2X.

gimbal · 13 November 2007, 13:52

you are right because even the screen resolution is the same. Only I don't see any mention of WiFi support in the wikipedia specs, that is too bad.

Grr, this evening I am going to do the last little fixes and I am going to put the beta online. I have been so busy programming on my next game that I have neglected to do this.

gimbal · 26 November 2007, 03:30

okay, I have waited long enough with this. Beta 1 is ready for download, from this very basic project page:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~gimbal/projects/kv.htm

In the mean time I have had some time to do minor fixes to the levels and I have actually seen it work properly on other machines than my own, so I am hopeful that nobody will have problems running this. Just don't try to run it in anything other than Windows 2000 or Windows XP.

Retro-Nerd · 26 November 2007, 03:49

Just tried it with XP/SP2 but got an executing error, can't start the Beta.

mr_0rga5m · 26 November 2007, 15:08

Same here .. Tried on 2 systems .. XP Pro x64 SP2 on Amd DualCore 4400+ 4gb ram 1.7t hd yadda yaddaa and (via VMware) XP Pro SP2 32bit etc...

"This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem."

I tried the ol right click > properties > compatability [XP] .. but still the same.

gimbal · 26 November 2007, 16:32

huh! That's the error I got when I did a debug build, but I uploaded a release build that I have seen working on other computers than my own (with a debug build you need Visual Studio 2005 installed. Otherwise you get the very informative error message that you guys have been receiving).

What the hell? I have done a complete rebuild and uploaded that, if it still isn't working I'm lost :s

[ edit ]
I've been scouting around google about this problem and its a common one that is giving a lot of programmers head aches... I've tried one suggestion that might solve it. The executable is slightly larger, but hopefully it will run on all computers now. Apparently the whole problem is caused by wrong versions of DLL files.
[ /edit ]

mr_0rga5m · 26 November 2007, 18:04

Uploaded where mate ? .. Seems to be the same 'old' zip file on that link above.

btw: I have VS2005 installed on the x64 machine, C# programmer atm you see.

Retro-Nerd · 26 November 2007, 18:10

Now it works, it's funny. I love the controls, very precise.

gimbal · 26 November 2007, 20:23

Quote:

Uploaded where mate ? .. Seems to be the same 'old' zip file on that link above.

Nope its updated as retronerd already has found out

I'm glad it is working now, although the solution is not exactly desirable. I need to put some more research into it.

Quote:

x64 machine

That might also be a problem, I have no 64 bits windows version to test the games under so I'm not 100% sure it is 64 bit compatible.

mr_0rga5m · 17 January 2008, 18:56

I just re-download and tried in a vmware'd XP32 session, it now works fine!.

Then with the new download i tried it on a XP64 (the one it would not run on before) and it also works. I dont know if you've updated the zip or its maybe because my XP64 has updated vs2005 `files` on it, but it works. yay.

And its good too, Well done gimbal.

(My only gripe is the fire weapon and jump are both the same key and you have to go fetch your weapon back but i guess this adds to the gameplay eh.)

gimbal · 18 January 2008, 13:52

> My only gripe is the fire weapon and jump are both the same key and you have to go fetch your weapon back but i guess this adds to the gameplay eh

It is also the same as the original game

I used something which is not really what you want; I made the compiler link a piece which SHOULD come from a DLL to my executable. Result is a larger executable but no DLL conflict problems. The problem is: if there is a bug in that code that I let the compiler link to my game and MS updates the DLL, the bug is still in my game executable. Of course this does not have to be a problem at all when the game does not use the bugged code, which is very likely since I use as little windoze stuff as possible to keep the code portable.

I am not completely sure how to fix this problem properly, but I have read that I should let the game be installed through windows installer because it will install the proper DLL's if necessary... as always it is far from clear though.

Glad it is working for you now. I am especially proud of the (still rather simple) AI ghosts in this game, they are my children

When I was programming their behavior they started to do unexpected things, I have never had such a blast while programming. I never specifically programmed them to jump up when I tried to jump over them for example, but the bastards still do it sometimes.

08 November 2007, 02:52	#1
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,919	Gimbal Games Inc. No, I did not start a company, I just needed a dorky titel for this thread to match my own uber-dorkness. Its been a long while since I last posted in this here forum and it has grown a little silent in general, so I decided to tell you all a little about what I have been up to... To put it as up-frontly as possible, I built and finished a game. I have to emphasize finished, because that is a first for me. And to make Zetr0 go into shock and horror, I did not build it in Java. Well let me give a little background before I unveil the name which some of you will find quite familiar. I am thinking especially Fred the Duck is going to frown, as well as other MSX enthusiasts (small hint to begin with). A long time ago I got interested in developing for PDA devices. That interest quickly awakened another interest that I had put to rest, which is game development. PDA's are becoming more and more popular and I saw the benefit in learning how to develop for them. So I did a java project for school first which was a success (although Java is nowhere near mature enough yet on pocketpc platforms). I envisioned creating, or recreating, simple old school games that can run on these devices. The Amiga for example has had so many simple yet addictive little games that would thrive on a PDA device. Logical, Plotting, Puzznic, Clockwiser, Gem'X, Ishido, Othello Killer, the possibilities are vast (Captive would be at the top of my list if it wasn't so damned huge). I also envisioned myself building a simple framework (I hate to use the word "Engine", it is terribly overhyped today) that would allow me to build these games for both WinCE and Win32 platforms, with some minor tweaks between the two platforms if needed. Well, I did just that. I dubbed it "HaywirePDA" or "Hwpda" for short (Haywire was the name of the "engine" I had continuously and endlessly in development when I was into game programming during my earlier developer years) and it actually allows me to make my games compile and run for both PocketPC platforms and regular Windows desktop platforms. The first game that I wanted to develop was going to prove that it worked... however eventually I realized that the game could simply not work on a PDA because of the limitations of input that would make playing it impossible. So I made that a PC only project. It allowed me to see what I did wrong in the framework and now Hwpda 2.0 is built, ready and functional. Note also that the code is setup such that all the pocketpc OS specific stuff is in one class, so in theory it is possible to port it to other PDA platforms as well... So so so so, what is the game that I developed. Well it is not an Amiga game but an MSX game like I had already hinted at. It is a little addictive platform puzzler created by Konami in 1985 for the MSX1. In it you play an archeologist who has to battle through 45 pyramids, evading ghosts and traps and picking up all diamonds to be able to proceed to the next level. Yes ladies and gentlemen, it is a little game called King's Valley. Now I chose this game for one simple reason: it is simple, but still challenging enough to make so that I could learn a lot from it. I have always been digging into the technical details of all aspects of game programming, but actually putting one together was never one of my stronger points. I needed practice and this game gave me all the practice I needed with doing simple 2d collision detection, scrolling levels, processor independent framerates and movement, monster AI, sound programming and other tricks of the trade. It took me almost three months of development (three months spread over like five months though), but last week I finally managed to squash the last know bug and I feel it is mature enough to put to a beta test. I am preparing to do just that, once I figure out a place online where I can safely store the files and I do some minor fixes to some of the levels (my previous infinite webspace sadly has been taken away from me, sob sob). It is a port of the old game (same graphics and sounds and for the most part even gameplay), but I did some minor tweaks. - gameplay is a little faster. In some situations the game is a little harder, in some situations a little easier. - ghosts have more behaviors (they can even be scared of you for example), each ghost has his own personal tricks. - levels bigger than one screen scroll in my version, no switch-when-hitting-the-edge madness - when a sword is falling and it hits a ghost in the head, the ghost is killed and the sword does a funny bounce - each fourth level you get a code so you can continue from that point. In the original you got a code only after completing 15 levels!!! - you can turn off the music! The game has only one tune and it CAN become a little repetitive after a while... I did some more little tweaks, but for the largest part the game is equal to the original. The levels are completely the same, only I removed the ability to go back to completed ones (because of my more linear approach with codes every few levels). This post is beginning to become alarmingly long now, so I will wrap it up by saying that I am already working on the second game that IS going to work on a pocketpc (windows mobile 5 and up) and on regular computers, and you can multiplay with two players using either platform through a network. It is a remake of an Amiga game this time, but I will not reveal which one yet, you all will have to wait for the second thread The game is already a good way into the development cycle though and I have already seen it move without crashing. It is simpler than King's Valley and the framework is already finished, so it should not take me so long to get it to a beta stage. Some technical details: Built using Visual Studio 2005 pro (legal!), Visual C++ Graphics: on pocketpc the GAPI (game API) is used, on windows DirectDraw Memory usage: only a few megabytes. I try to keep it under 6mb usage, most of it is used by music and sounds. On PDA devices music is loaded in the background even while the game is already playing if that is what I desire, because loading from a flash card can be quite slow and can seriously slow down the startup time of a game. This allows me to load music for the next level in the background while you are still playing another level. processor requirements for PDA: ARM architecture. 100mhz should be enough even. I use a 300mhz device to test though. Screen: 16 bits or 32 bits video mode, the framework can do both landscape and portrait rendering on PDA devices (not as easy as it sounds for games...). When compiled for the desktop, the framework will double all pixels. Otherwise the window would be only 240320 / 320240 Currently I do not support other video resolutions just yet. I need to leave some features for Hwpda 3.0 It is not much effort for me to add support for other bitdepths should I have been mistaken in the capabilities of most devices in use today. Enough talk. I hope to have the game for you all to pick apart ASAP. The beta version will have only the first 16 levels though (but you get a code so you can continue from level 16 when I finish more). Of course if I don't find a proper webspace soon, I can always email it to those who are interested. Perhaps even the zone can be of help there.

08 November 2007, 13:32	#5
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,919	It's King's Valley 1, because that gave me a feeling of nostalgia I only played the sequel once or twice. I don't know why I picked that game, but as soon as I decided to start the project it was clear to me it had to be this game. > clearly thats showing off no less No, it is me admitting that Java on pocketpc sucks I'm a firm believer that professional game development with Java is more than possible, but in this case I only had the choice between Visual C++, C# and VB.NET. And since I don't want to force people to install .NET bloatware on their PDA and I wanted to keep it all at least marginally portable, C++ was the best choice. Also what I want to clear up, because it may have gotten lost in that huge opening post, is that King's Valley is pc only, not for pocketpc platforms. I was planning on making it possible to play the game using the standard pocketpc buttons in landscape mode, but I decided against it because on a lot of devices, including my own, those buttons are not suited for games and are even a little too fragile to be used continuously for long periods of time. Games I develop to be run on a pocketpc will use the stylus only. This gives me some head aches still, because how am I going to let the user input an IP address and port number for example in the game I am developing now... I guess I will have to use a setup dialog before the game starts so I can use the onscreen SIP keyboard. edit: yay, my webspace problems are solved. I never put any thought into it, but I have 200mb webspace with my internet company so I can put all my files there. Last edited by gimbal; 08 November 2007 at 15:46.

26 November 2007, 16:32	#11
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,919	huh! That's the error I got when I did a debug build, but I uploaded a release build that I have seen working on other computers than my own (with a debug build you need Visual Studio 2005 installed. Otherwise you get the very informative error message that you guys have been receiving). What the hell? I have done a complete rebuild and uploaded that, if it still isn't working I'm lost :s [ edit ] I've been scouting around google about this problem and its a common one that is giving a lot of programmers head aches... I've tried one suggestion that might solve it. The executable is slightly larger, but hopefully it will run on all computers now. Apparently the whole problem is caused by wrong versions of DLL files. [ /edit ] Last edited by gimbal; 26 November 2007 at 16:49.

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08 November 2007, 03:14	#2
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	Zetr0: Applauds Indeed, great work sir... great work indeed... and using something other than java.... clearly thats showing off no less well done! i look forward to seeing it...

08 November 2007, 03:52	#3
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	good job ! And king's valley is a great game then a good first choice, but is it king's valley 1 or 2 ? can't wait to know wich amiga you will convert

08 November 2007, 11:01	#4
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,449	Nice choice for a remake. I would prefer King's Valley 2 for the miggy, but i like those single screen platformer.

13 November 2007, 03:43	#6
Rebel-CD32 Amiga will never die! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tasmania, Australia Age: 43 Posts: 532	This sounds like a game that wouldn't be too hard to port to the GP2X.

13 November 2007, 13:52	#7
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,919	you are right because even the screen resolution is the same. Only I don't see any mention of WiFi support in the wikipedia specs, that is too bad. Grr, this evening I am going to do the last little fixes and I am going to put the beta online. I have been so busy programming on my next game that I have neglected to do this.

26 November 2007, 03:30	#8
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,919	okay, I have waited long enough with this. Beta 1 is ready for download, from this very basic project page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gimbal/projects/kv.htm In the mean time I have had some time to do minor fixes to the levels and I have actually seen it work properly on other machines than my own, so I am hopeful that nobody will have problems running this. Just don't try to run it in anything other than Windows 2000 or Windows XP.

26 November 2007, 03:49	#9
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,449	Just tried it with XP/SP2 but got an executing error, can't start the Beta.

26 November 2007, 15:08	#10
mr_0rga5m Tik Gora :D Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Round yo momma's Posts: 1,273	Same here .. Tried on 2 systems .. XP Pro x64 SP2 on Amd DualCore 4400+ 4gb ram 1.7t hd yadda yaddaa and (via VMware) XP Pro SP2 32bit etc... "This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem." I tried the ol right click > properties > compatability [XP] .. but still the same.

26 November 2007, 18:04	#12
mr_0rga5m Tik Gora :D Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Round yo momma's Posts: 1,273	Uploaded where mate ? .. Seems to be the same 'old' zip file on that link above. btw: I have VS2005 installed on the x64 machine, C# programmer atm you see.

26 November 2007, 18:10	#13
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,449	Now it works, it's funny. I love the controls, very precise.

17 January 2008, 18:56	#15
mr_0rga5m Tik Gora :D Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Round yo momma's Posts: 1,273	I just re-download and tried in a vmware'd XP32 session, it now works fine!. Then with the new download i tried it on a XP64 (the one it would not run on before) and it also works. I dont know if you've updated the zip or its maybe because my XP64 has updated vs2005 `files` on it, but it works. yay. And its good too, Well done gimbal. (My only gripe is the fire weapon and jump are both the same key and you have to go fetch your weapon back but i guess this adds to the gameplay eh.)

18 January 2008, 13:52	#16
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,919	> My only gripe is the fire weapon and jump are both the same key and you have to go fetch your weapon back but i guess this adds to the gameplay eh It is also the same as the original game I used something which is not really what you want; I made the compiler link a piece which SHOULD come from a DLL to my executable. Result is a larger executable but no DLL conflict problems. The problem is: if there is a bug in that code that I let the compiler link to my game and MS updates the DLL, the bug is still in my game executable. Of course this does not have to be a problem at all when the game does not use the bugged code, which is very likely since I use as little windoze stuff as possible to keep the code portable. I am not completely sure how to fix this problem properly, but I have read that I should let the game be installed through windows installer because it will install the proper DLL's if necessary... as always it is far from clear though. Glad it is working for you now. I am especially proud of the (still rather simple) AI ghosts in this game, they are my children When I was programming their behavior they started to do unexpected things, I have never had such a blast while programming. I never specifically programmed them to jump up when I tried to jump over them for example, but the bastards still do it sometimes.

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