x86 Bridgeboard update (PCem core)

[Toni Wilen]

Emulated board is RT1000B. RT1000C apparently is not identical, at least it has IO/memory mapped addressing select jumper that B variant does not. (B is memory mapped only)

So there is no way to know if RTASPI1C.SYS is compatible with B.

This is confusing.. RTASPI10.SYS is for "plain" RT1000 and RTASPIC1C.SYS is for RT1000C. What about RT1000B? Or is RTASPI10.SYS also for B? But lack any accesses to $dc000 makes no sense.

[Zilog]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

.....

Tony,
right, different version pcb....., controller 8 bit,memory lack,....in manual there is write old verison of dos 6.22....it possible to have compatily with only old verison ms-dos (not 16bit).....tommorow test with old verison of msdos.

[Zilog]

Originally Posted by Zilog

......

Not work
I have try with Amiga2000 base + X86 Commodore A286 + Rt1000 + Dos 3.31 + rtaspi10.sys and both Bios 8.10 a Bios 8.20.



Always not found.

[Zilog]

Tony, mayby it possible need the interrupt active?


In Attach Files the page of manual and jumpers for interrupt.

[Zilog]

Originally Posted by AnnaWu

I think this is not a specific problem of WinUAE.
The same problem exist with the PCem too and on the hardware.

Tony Confirm AnnaWu,
i test with PCem the controller , alway aspi manager don't detect.

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by Zilog

Tony, mayby it possible need the interrupt active?


In Attach Files the page of manual and jumpers for interrupt.

I don't think so. Document only mentions some novell stuff (SCSI networking?) requiring it and also aspi document says nothing about interrupts. I also found image of RT1000B without IRQ jumper pins soldered.

I guess RTASPI10.SYS is only for RT1000 and RTASPI1C.SYS is for RT1000C. It is also possibly archive is not complete.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Tested successful installation of Windows 1.4

[ Show youtube player ]

[amiga_amigo]

Thanks Toni for the fix!

Some more random findings:

I usually like to enable scanlines - reminds me of my old crt-monitor and adds some nostalgia.
The "scanlines" setting under Host->Display gives a bit too high contrast so i leave this setting at "double" and mix in scanlines in the Host->Filter panel (-> extra settings -> scanline opacity -> ~50).
As soon as the bridgeboard window opens, the scanlines disappear. The "normal" scanline mode enabled in Host->Display continues to work though.

Also - it would be nice if (these kind of) filters could be applied to the bridgeboard window as well. If not independently configurable, then maybe same settings for both windows?
After all, the bridgeboard vga was attached to a second crt-monitor in reality as well - so same look-and-feel seems reasonable(?)

Reset is making emulation stutter: i think i've read somewhere we need to quit WinUAE completely - but not sure.
That's what i'm doing now since after a reset the emulation starts to stutter. It's quite noticeable as soon as the bridgeboard bios counts its ram up.
On the first run bios counts smoothly (twice?). After reset, it counts fluently maybe for a second then stops a couple of milliseconds (noticeable) and continues.
Also sound output from the soundblaster stutters after reset.

I also have no luck with x86 Bridgeboard CPU options (or is this a left-over from the previous emulation core that isn't supposed to work?).
Even a slight speedup either crashes WinUAE or gives all kinds of side-effects. I had the mouse moving at variable (usually very slow) speed or the mouse pointer jumping randomly.
Sometimes the mouse is not even recognized, the soundcard (configured correctly and working) is no longer being recognized by the game i use for testing, etc, etc.
Are the peripherals getting out of sync with the cpu-emulation here? Maybe the whole x86-part needs the speedup, including the x86 expansions?
Ala "fastest possible but keep expansions timing"
Easy said - i know. You see - i know nothing about the WinUAE source or hardware emulation in general - i'm just dreaming.

The reason i played with x86 Bridgeboard CPU options was the fairly slow response of my emulated CL-GD5429.
I use the game Strike Commander for testing and the game plays an animated intro - currently it's more of a slideshow on my (admittedly) low-end notebook.
But since it wasn't much difference on another pc i tested it (desktop pc and graphics fast enough for my cad work) i wondered if i could get this better by tuning emulation cpu speed.

Nevertheless - keep up this incredible work!
Back to play with my amiga now...

Best regards,
Michael

[Toni Wilen]

Moved from beta thread because post has too many non-beta related questions..

Originally Posted by amiga_amigo

I usually like to enable scanlines - reminds me of my old crt-monitor and adds some nostalgia.
The "scanlines" setting under Host->Display gives a bit too high contrast so i leave this setting at "double" and mix in scanlines in the Host->Filter panel (-> extra settings -> scanline opacity -> ~50).
As soon as the bridgeboard window opens, the scanlines disappear. The "normal" scanline mode enabled in Host->Display continues to work though.

Do you really want them because PC screen modes (except CGA?) does not have scanlines.

Bridgeboard window? (I can count at least 3 different things that can be called "bridgeboard window") Also I am confused because Display panel scanlines only affect native Amiga modes, not bridgeboard/RTG modes.

(photos/screenshots?)

Reset is making emulation stutter: i think i've read somewhere we need to quit WinUAE completely - but not sure.
That's what i'm doing now since after a reset the emulation starts to stutter. It's quite noticeable as soon as the bridgeboard bios counts its ram up.
On the first run bios counts smoothly (twice?). After reset, it counts fluently maybe for a second then stops a couple of milliseconds (noticeable) and continues.
Also sound output from the soundblaster stutters after reset.

Not enough details. Only when Amiga is reset or also when PC is only reset? (using PCReset)

I also have no luck with x86 Bridgeboard CPU options (or is this a left-over from the previous emulation core that isn't supposed to work?).

If you mean CPU model strings: it only changes different PCem emulated CPU config. End result is not my problem

Even a slight speedup either crashes WinUAE or gives all kinds of side

Do you really mean winuae crashing or emulated Amiga crashing? If it is winuae crashing: make sure JIT is off, then attach dump file.

-effects. I had the mouse moving at variable (usually very slow) speed or the mouse pointer jumping randomly.
Sometimes the mouse is not even recognized, the soundcard (configured correctly and working) is no longer being recognized by the game i use for testing, etc, etc.
Are the peripherals getting out of sync with the cpu-emulation here? Maybe the whole x86-part needs the speedup, including the x86 expansions?
Ala "fastest possible but keep expansions timing"
Easy said - i know. You see - i know nothing about the WinUAE source or hardware emulation in general - i'm just dreaming.

Not interested. Adjusted CPU speed: you are on your own. PCem core does not have any kind of variable "fastest possible" mode.

The reason i played with x86 Bridgeboard CPU options was the fairly slow response of my emulated CL-GD5429.
I use the game Strike Commander for testing and the game plays an animated intro - currently it's more of a slideshow on my (admittedly) low-end notebook.
But since it wasn't much difference on another pc i tested it (desktop pc and graphics fast enough for my cad work) i wondered if i could get this better by tuning emulation cpu speed.

Animations/videos are usually not CPU speed dependant but something else. But as usual: I won't do PC debugging if it is something boring as speed difference. Bridgeboard emulation is only meant for running compatible software, speed is irrelevant. Real PC emulators usually have different goals.

[amiga_amigo]

Thanks for your reply

and sorry for posting this in the wrong thread at first.

Do you really want them because PC screen modes (except CGA?) does not have scanlines.

Ok then - just thought the pc screen would look more like a crt-monitor with "scanlines" since there were no high-dpi TFT-Flatscreens back in the amiga times.

Bridgeboard window? (I can count at least 3 different things that can be called "bridgeboard window") Also I am confused because Display panel scanlines only affect native Amiga modes, not bridgeboard/RTG modes.

I'm not working fullscreen but in windowed mode, so i have the "amiga window" showing the workbench booting when i start emulation, right?
A few seconds later a "pc window" opens next to it (rigth-hand side) with the pc-bridgeboard emulation showing the pc bios and boot process.
At first when there's only the amiga emulation window open, the scanlines (set via "Host"->"Display"->"line mode" set to "double", "Host"->"Filter"->"extra settings"->"scanline opacity" slider set to ~50) are displayed nicely in the amiga emulation window.
When the second window (pc bios screen) opens, the scanlines in the AMIGA window disappear.
They stay intact though if you enable scanlines "the normal way" via "Host"->"Display"->"line mode" set to "scanlines".

Not enough details. Only when Amiga is reset or also when PC is only reset? (using PCReset)

Full reset. Hitting F12 during emulation, the GUI comes up. Press "reset" button bottom left -> emulation restarts but bridgeboard emu now stutters.
Same thing happens when hitting F12 and pressing the "restart" button bottom left and then start emulation without changing any settings in the GUI.
PCReset seems fine but my dos mouse driver doesn't work anymore after PCReset therefore i need to full-reset i.e. close and restart WinUAE currently.

If you mean CPU model strings: it only changes different PCem emulated CPU config. End result is not my problem

I mean "Hardware"->"CPU and FPU"->"x86 Bridgeboard CPU options"->"CPU Speed"->+xxx% slider.

Do you really mean winuae crashing or emulated Amiga crashing? If it is winuae crashing: make sure JIT is off, then attach dump file.

JIT is off - i'm usually using most accurate and compatible settings wherever possible.
And yes Winuae crashing not the emulated amiga or pc. No dump file though - Windows10 just closed the application completely without any messages.
Unfortunately i can't reproduce it currently - i only get the application to freeze until windows complains and asks whether to close it or wait (forever).
Closing it, windows wants to send a bug report to Microsoft... as if MS could help
So - lesson learned is: leave the "x86 Bridgeboard CPU options->"CPU Speed" slider untouched.

...Bridgeboard emulation is only meant for running compatible software, speed is irrelevant.

Ok for me, would have been nice though. Apropos compatible software: i had a hard time setting up ems memory under dos. Tried a few memory managers - also EMM.sys from the Janus disk. It just threw an error "incompatible hardware" or something with the A2386sx emulation. Another Janus tool BBSetup.com brought up pc bios for adjusting settings but neither the "end" nor "esc"-key of the keyboard were working to exit bios. I haven't tried the other Janus files yet (adisk, amouse, aread, awrite, etc.) but i would fear similar compatibility problems.
Nevertheless, after all this is a new emulation core - incredible work so far!

Greetings, Michael

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by amiga_amigo

Ok then - just thought the pc screen would look more like a crt-monitor with "scanlines" since there were no high-dpi TFT-Flatscreens back in the amiga times.

PC modes don't leave "empty" scanlines like Amiga non-laced modes do. (2x the scan rate = reason why PCs needed expensive monitors)

When the second window (pc bios screen) opens, the scanlines in the AMIGA window disappear.

Attach screenshots.

Unfortunately i can't reproduce it currently - i only get the application to freeze until windows complains and asks whether to close it or wait (forever).

In this case you can open task manager, right click winuae.exe and select dump file option.

a hard time setting up ems memory under dos. Tried a few memory managers - also EMM.sys from the Janus disk. It just threw an error "incompatible hardware" or something with the A2386sx emulation. Another Janus tool BBSetup.com brought up pc bios for adjusting settings but neither

Attach HDF or dos floppy that has this configuration. (But I got report that EMM does work..). Make sure RAM size is not too large, chipset has some addressing limits. Try max 4M to be sure.

the "end" nor "esc"-key of the keyboard were working to exit bios. I haven't tried the other Janus files yet (adisk, amouse, aread, awrite, etc.) but i would fear similar compatibility problems.

Read the bridgeboard manual. PC END = Amiga numpad 1. I have used aread and awrite, they work fine.

Make sure janus handler version string texts appear at PC boot.

[amiga_amigo]

Toni - I've uploaded a zip-file "A2386sx_findings.zip" with screenshots, a bootdisk and my config to the zone.

Attach screenshots.

There are two screenshots in the zip-file to show the scanline issue i described.
"Scanlines1.png" is right after hitting the start button in the WinUAE GUI. It's the moment the amiga starts booting workbench from hardfile just before the bridgeboard emulation window appears.
"Scanlines2.png" is a few seconds later, amiga still booting to workbench. Second window on the righthand side shows pc bios prompt before memory is counted. Scanlines in the amiga window have disappeared.

Attach HDF or dos floppy that has this configuration. (But I got report that EMM does work..). Make sure RAM size is not too large, chipset has some addressing limits. Try max 4M to be sure.

The zip contains a DOS6.22 bootdisk "EMM_Test.img". On this disk image the config.sys contains only the EMM.sys call as described in the A2386sx brigdeboard users guide. EMM.sys is copied from CBM-PCJanus.zip from Amiga Hardware Database.
Booting from this disk gives me "Invalid hardware for memory manager".
8MB or 4MB bridgeboard memory makes no difference.

Read the bridgeboard manual. PC END = Amiga numpad 1.

I've done so and i knew this. I had configured and saved bios settings on emulation start. There the esc- and end-keys were working, but not so trying bbsetup.
I tested again and... bbsetup.com works from the attached bootdisk! So the esc-key and end-key (==Numpad1) not working issue i had must be due to my dos keyboard driver (using a german qwertz keyboard layout).
Need to investigate further, so sorry for the false alarm.

Thanks for your patience,

Michael

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by amiga_amigo

There are two screenshots in the zip-file to show the scanline issue i described.

Fixed. You can also configure separate RTG (VGA is considered RTG screen) filter settings by changing Filter panel option that normally says "Native". (But note that on the fly adjustments don't seem to work yet) (EDIT: I originally thought you meant "PC color" or "PC mono" window)

EDIT2: Filter on the fly changing now also works with multimonitor monitors.

The zip contains a DOS6.22 bootdisk "EMM_Test.img". On this disk image the config.sys contains only the EMM.sys call as described in the A2386sx brigdeboard users guide. EMM.sys is copied from CBM-PCJanus.zip from Amiga Hardware Database.
Booting from this disk gives me "Invalid hardware for memory manager".
8MB or 4MB bridgeboard memory makes no difference.

Fixed (One chipset IO port was not mapped..). At least the error is now gone.

[amiga_amigo]

Wow - you're unbelievable

Thanks Toni!

[Toni Wilen]

Does EMM actually work now? Program(s) that uses EMS runs without any weird behavior?

btw, does mouse now work after reset? (PC serial port was not reset). This change does not affect any other reset issues.

[amiga_amigo]

Sorry - haven't tested yet.
I need to download fixed version first - but where? Sorry, i'm still new to this...
If it's the file at http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.7z, then no luck - zip file seems to be broken.

Hopefully i can test tonight, when kids are in bed.

Michael

[AnnaWu]

Originally Posted by amiga_amigo

Sorry - haven't tested yet.
I need to download fixed version first - but where? Sorry, i'm still new to this...
If it's the file at http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.7z, then no luck - zip file seems to be broken.

Hopefully i can test tonight, when kids are in bed.

Michael

Yep, the header is broken.

[AnnaWu]

Toni, can you replace the broken 7-zip ( http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.7z) file, please?

[Toni Wilen]

Does it work now? (Local file is fine, it seems it got broken during uploading)

[amiga_amigo]

No - still broken. Tried different browsers and cleared cache first. Just to be safe...