Tracer disk duplication hardware

[Bernd]

Currently there is a nice item on Ebay. It is a Tracer/ST disk copy station by Trace which was used by many companies to write/create their (copy protected) disks.
Starting price is "only" 300 Euros. I've seen the same machine for 3000 USD+...
URL: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tem=2054462182
Since the pictures on the auction page are quite bad I attached a better one:

[Amiga1992]

w00t!

Looks like a "disk photocopier"!!

[Big-Byte]

Im sure the people at CAPS would be interested in it!

[Bernd]

CAPS folks mentioned the Tracer in an older WIP. After reading this I got some attention for this sort of hardware...
I am currently not sure if this Tracer is suitable for Amiga floppies. I already contacted the offerer, but there is always a 'full mailbox' error. But I think this has nothing to do with very high interest for this item

[Bernd]

I e-mailed the manufacturer Trace in the USA (who btw only maintain a site on Geocities) and they said that 300 EUR is a great deal since they sell the same modell in refurbished (used) form for $4,000 !!! I can't understand why these units are so expensive.
In Europe there is only one Trace support centre left. It is in Belgium... There could be problems if you are outside this country and your Tracer gets damaged. Shipping costs will become very high.

[fiath]

Hmm, I missed this thread...

300 EUR is a good deal. I was offered a Trace ST 7500 for $1000 around Febuary - needless to say I didn't buy it - but then I wouldn't be able to use it anyway - see below.

Anyway, bear in mind a few things if you are thinking of buying a Trace disk duplicator:

1) It needs to connect to a host machine, with the software to control it. I have found PC software that can control some of the Trace series - but both apps were only able to deal in PC and Mac disk formats.

A Trace duplicator is not a "Cyclone" solution. It is not a case of feeding it a disk and it gets copied all on that machine.

Mind you saying this - the picture you attached looks much more advanced than the machines we have seen - maybe they newer ones have a "standalone" mode that can duplicate a limited set of formats - say - PC/Mac. So still not very useful

2) To write any "custom" formats you need need the associated "Freeform" script for that particular disk format. You will also need the Unix workstation with the Trace control software (as the host, see point 1) that supports Freeform.

I have an AmigaDOS Freeform script. But it is pretty useless without the software to make use it.

A Trace duplicator is not a "Cyclone" solution. It needs to know how to write a disk - not just what data to write. This is what the Freeform script is for - it tells the duplicator software the low level format of the disk (even down the the physical encoding - MFM, FM, GCR, etc.) any integrity checks etc - and hence how to control the duplicator in order to write the disk image that is stored, then how to do the verify.

So basically unless you are able to get these files from Trace or the game publishers (even if they still had them) - you won't be able to do much with it. I did contact them at the beginning of this year - requesting something along those lines - but I was told that nothing of their floppy disk duplicator business existed anymore.

Perhaps somebody else here will have better luck that I did - I wasn't very persistant.

Anyway, I hope you guys didn't go out and buy a Trace duplicator! :eek I think it could possibly be of use to somebody that wanted to write some software to do something similar to what the Freeform system did - but I foresee that at some point in the not-so-near future anybody can build something like a "Trace duplicator" if they want to.

[Bernd]

1) It needs to connect to a host machine, with the software to control it. I have found PC software that can control some of the Trace series - but both apps were only able to deal in PC and Mac disk formats.

I guess this is only required for the models which handle copy protected disks too. After obtaining some further information I found out that the model in the auction I posted (Mod. 223) is not capable of making protected disks.
After the auction's end the auctioneer contacted me again and offered it for only 230 EUR, but I disagreed since I could not do all the stuff with it I would like to.

A Trace duplicator is not a "Cyclone" solution. It is not a case of feeding it a disk and it gets copied all on that machine.

I was not thinking this...

Mind you saying this - the picture you attached looks much more advanced than the machines we have seen - maybe they newer ones have a "standalone" mode that can duplicate a limited set of formats - say - PC/Mac. So still not very useful

I took the pic from a site which had lots of high res pics for Mod. 223. Unfortunately I have lost the link. There were also great photos which shew the machines circuit boards and so on.

2) To write any "custom" formats you need need the associated "Freeform" script for that particular disk format. You will also need the Unix workstation with the Trace control software (as the host, see point 1) that supports Freeform.

I have an AmigaDOS Freeform script. But it is pretty useless without the software to make use it.

A Trace duplicator is not a "Cyclone" solution. It needs to know how to write a disk - not just what data to write. This is what the Freeform script is for - it tells the duplicator software the low level format of the disk (even down the the physical encoding - MFM, FM, GCR, etc.) any integrity checks etc - and hence how to control the duplicator in order to write the disk image that is stored, then how to do the verify.

Sounds complicated but it would be interesting.

So basically unless you are able to get these files from Trace or the game publishers (even if they still had them) - you won't be able to do much with it. I did contact them at the beginning of this year - requesting something along those lines - but I was told that nothing of their floppy disk duplicator business existed anymore.

It seems their site is on Geocities. I e-mailed them too and it seems they don't have any new products and only maintain the support for the remaining customers. Do you have further information what they are doing now?
BTW: The e-mail ad of the European Trace dude is mbennik@skynet.be.nospam. I e-mailed him too but after he had told me that only the Trace 223 manual would cost 69 Euro I was quite pissed off. I wonder how expesive the manuals for the better models would cost. Probably 150 EUR+ !!

Anyway, I hope you guys didn't go out and buy a Trace duplicator! I think it could possibly be of use to somebody that wanted to write some software to do something similar to what the Freeform system did - but I foresee that at some point in the not-so-near future anybody can build something like a "Trace duplicator" if they want to.

Well, it seems there is virtually no interest for these machines anymore. It is said that normal floppy disk is a dead media... Have just been on Ebay and this time there are some offers in the USA:
Mod 7500:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tem=2063974796
Mod 8000:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tem=2063974358

[Simon Berry]

Trace (UK) Limited was a division of Trace in the US, which was formed when several employees left Formaster in search of producing superior diskette duplication technology.

Back in the late 1980s when creating copy protection systems, I often visited Ablex Audio Video in Telford (Hi Martine!) - and then worked at Reflex Magnetics (Hi Tim!) in London for a while. These are two examples of several disk duplicators that existed, another one being e.g. Disc Form (Hi Dave!). I've forgotten a few others, it's been > 30 years. However it was a fairly closed circuit of otherwise decent folks.

These duplicators did use standalone Trace duplicators like the 223 mentioned, which were OK for duplicating unprotected or at least minimally protected disks. You'd insert the disk, press buttons, wait for it to analyse, then duplicate some samples and if good, run off as many as were required. These were good for e.g. business software duplication for IBM PCs, and the occasional Macintosh job that came along.

However for copy protected disks e.g. with Speedlock, CopyLock, ... the serious duplicator would have a Trace system (I think a model 1006 if memory serves?) that was a computer running UNIX in a cabinet on wheels with e.g. Wyse VT-100 terminals, a hard disk the size of a brick (probably 10 MBytes!) and serious I/O cards that connected to auto-loaders. To duplicate a disk on this set-up required setting up a FreeForm script (typically copying the most recent closest one) that described the disk format. Simple scripts were provided with the machine: we would copy and edit these accordingly. Certain people would supply their own compiled scripts on a 5 1/4" floppy: looking at you, Rob Northern!

Loading up and analysing an image would take a while, however then we'd produce a few samples and test them out. Assuming they worked OK, then we'd load up the autoloaders and start the duplication.

An example "trick" with FreeForm - only duplicate the first say 30 tracks of the disk where the game would reside. This wasn't for any copy protection purpose: simply, the disks would duplicate more quickly!

Unfortunately no real internet or mobile phones back then, but maybe someone out there has some pictures? Anyone?

(I'm posting this in the hope that at least one or two of my duplicator contemporaries is out there and can fill in some of the missing information here! Anyone got Paul Caton's contact info? Only those people truly understand the squealing beeping of autoloaders that needed either refilling or un-jamming - the stuff of nightmares )