Rarity rating

[Duke]

I think it would be nice to have a certain rarity rating assigned to each title, so that collectors can quickly see if a price is ok the want to pay or just to rate your own collection.

Something like the system at AtariAge would be optimal

[Amiga1992]

This has been posted recently, but dunno where. Oh well... may have been in some chat pr private HOL discussion.

Anyway, it's in the works

[Codetapper]

Personally I think the AtariAge system is far too complex. As I said in another thread, you will end up with people bitching over whether a game should be rating 8 vs rating 9 out of 10. The system I proposed is much more simple - something like this with a comments field:

0 = Default/Unknown (not filled in)
1 = Common as mud
2 = One version is common, at least one other version is rare
3 = Rare
4 = Extremely rare
5 = Game finished and reviewed but not found/released

Some examples for each title:

1 = SDI/Cinemaware
2 = Empire Strikes Back
3 = Brian Lara's Cricket, Mickey Mouse, SDI/Activision
4 = The Champ, Zoom
5 = Putty Squad, Tilt/Codemasters

The comment field would be used like this:

Standalone MFM version of Empire Strikes Back is rare, most versions have a virus on the bootblock of this version and it does not work. The copyable disk version is very common.

This way there are not too many categories to bog everyone down and let's face it - most people just want to know if a game they have is considered rare or not.

[Mr Creosote]

Sorry, but I see many problems with a classification of rarity. Most important: international differences from country to country.

[Antiriad]

Your plan sounds good to me Codetapper!

[Duke]

Yep, I would be perfectly happy with that system

@Mr Creosote: Major regional differences for countries could be explained in the comments field.

[fiath]

Originally posted by Codetapper
Standalone MFM version of Empire Strikes Back is rare, most versions have a virus on the bootblock of this version and it does not work. The copyable disk version is very common.

Do you mean a disk image, or the actual original disk? If original, are you really sure it had a virus??

[Codetapper]

Originally posted by fiath
Do you mean a disk image, or the actual original disk? If original, are you really sure it had a virus??

You'll have to ask ville9 that - from memory he bought 2 versions of Empire Strikes Back which both had a virus on the bootblock. From memory it was the same one. And I also had another MFMWarp dump from somebody else which also had the virus!

Hard to believe the disks would have the virus on the original but 3 MFM disk versions all with a virus seems more than just a coincidence!

(BTW, the more common standard AmigaDos NDOS format version did not suffer this problem).

[fiath]

Okay, well luckily (!) the virus definitely modified those disks, since we have dumps of them. So we still have not yet found a commerically released game with a virus on.

Pretty obviously, these do not have a virus:

http://www.caps-project.org/games.ph...Empire+Strikes

[robotriot]

I actually would prefer the 0-10 rarity system because it's used by the 'official' videogame collector's guide, DigitalPress. They already have lists for CDTV and CD32, see here. Of course it would be a lot of work to determine all the different grades, but I think it ought to be done someday as a guide for the 'serious' collectors ;)

[RCK]

The codetapper rarity meter have already been implemented in HOL, in will be displayed for public in near futur

[derSammler]

And how do you know if a game is rare or not ? In my opinion a rarity rating is as useless as a good/bad rating...

[robotriot]

WindowsKiller: ebay/flea market/etc observation, or by knowing production runs.

[Codetapper]

Unless I am absolutely sure I leave the rarity field to the experts in the group - Dr Bong and Cody. Unless you have an enormous collection of games or troll E-Bay a lot you don't really qualify to fill in the field imho...

Good idea but how will you update 5100+ entries once market conditions change? All the games will be unavailable someday and if not updated, hol will be an object of nostalgia itself.

[wakeupbomb]

Well I think a rarity rating would be a damned good idea. I'm half way through storing details on all my games in a weirdo Filemaker Pro database and i've created a field for rarity but am just guessing what to put in it. It certainly is useful for ebaying and whatnot. And especially if like me you want to go "HA! I have a rare game." hmm yes
Either way HOL still rocks my socks.
I'm just thinking of my own selfish gains.

[cebulba]

ok...

WHO is responsible for the RARITY grades of games in HOL?

There are many games I personally wouldn't rate as RARE and on the other hand as being COMMON AS MUD.

This scale is not very meaningful if you want my opinion. I would suggest you either name 10 hardcore collectors who really take care of that rarity scale or delete this "information" from HOL...

[DrBong]

You have to consider that the rarity scale takes into account a worldwide perspective (i.e. not just availability in Europe, UK, USA, Australia/New Zealand etc. per se), as well as other factors like region-specific releases (e.g. U.S. vs UK release of Archipelagos) and availability in original and budget/compilation versions. Want to specify some examples that you're unhappy with? Just posting a rant that you don't agree isn't terribly constructive.

[cebulba]

two examples:
Jet
Rarity scale: Common as mud

Comment: I came across this game several times (mainly in US) however I wouldn't rate it as "common as mud". Common as Mud would be LEMMINGS or other best-selling games: the usual "10 copies a day on Ebay game".
In a way PRE-1989 games aren't available any more in hundreds of units - so you can say a Pre-1989 cannot get a "common as mud" rating.

Millenium
Rarity Scale: EXTREMELY RARE

Comment: Hence Extremely Rare is the toughest value in your rating scale this game should be difficult to come by. Really? Besides the fact that it's a 1991 game you can get either the European release and the US release quite often. More often than other extremely rare games like Giana Sisters (which you could get about 2-3 times a year on Ebay for example - in "good years" *g*)

Overall comment:
You listed Archipelagos. If the rarity scale has been given on a special edition or by region specifics than you need to add this as information/comment to the rarity value, e.g. "while the European release is common, the special french version is extremely rare".

otherwise I see more "totally ultra rare Lemming-likes" Amiga games appearing on Ebay.uk for 100 pounds start price - hence Hol listed them as extremely rare

If you want to include a rarity scale - values should be given on descent research and consideration. I see a problem in handling this with only two or three members.
If you want to give real information on rarity - then it deserves a good beating.
I'm not behind the scenes and this is not meant offensive (!) but @DrBong do you really check the market every day for years - worldwide (and not from Australia) and even on games you already own? I'm not saying you personally aren't able to rate a game (as being one of the top10 collectors here) but I would consider to "build a rating team" of 5-10 decent collectors (or even "Resellers") to give more attention to the rating system - besides for one or two members (as it seems the rating is based on) a "good and true value" is difficult to obtain (and would deserve hours of hunting down games worldwide)...

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by cebulba

two examples:
Jet
Rarity scale: Common as mud

Comment: I came across this game several times (mainly in US) however I wouldn't rate it as "common as mud". Common as Mud would be LEMMINGS or other best-selling games: the usual "10 copies a day on Ebay game".

Good call! I'm not sure who rated that one, but it deserves a rarity rating of at least 2 stars if not 3. Changed.

In a way PRE-1989 games aren't available any more in hundreds of units - so you can say a Pre-1989 cannot get a "common as mud" rating.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the last part of that statement. There are a fair few pre-1989 games that are common, whether they be original release or in the form of budget/compilation versions.

Millenium
Rarity Scale: EXTREMELY RARE

Comment: Hence Extremely Rare is the toughest value in your rating scale this game should be difficult to come by. Really? Besides the fact that it's a 1991 game you can get either the European release and the US release quite often. More often than other extremely rare games like Giana Sisters (which you could get about 2-3 times a year on Ebay for example - in "good years" *g*)

Again, I'm not sure who rated this one (wasn't me!). This entry, however, specifically refers to the U.S. release (and not the common European release). I can't say that I've ever seen this one (on Ebay or elsewhere), but it probably deserves a 3 star rating by virtue of the fact that it hardly ever appears for sale outside the U.S. I agree, 4 stars is probably overstating its rarity. Changed.

Overall comment:
You listed Archipelagos. If the rarity scale has been given on a special edition or by region specifics than you need to add this as information/comment to the rarity value, e.g. "while the European release is common, the special french version is extremely rare".

In the case of Archipelagos, the rarity rating applied hopefully is self-explanatory:

"One version is common, at least one other version is rare 2 stars"

In any case, comments regarding rarity would probably be low priority for us right now......too much other basic stuff missing from game entries that require our more immediate attention.

otherwise I see more "totally ultra rare Lemming-likes" Amiga games appearing on Ebay.uk for 100 pounds start price - hence Hol listed them as extremely rare

Isn't virtually every Amiga game on Ebay these days classified as "rare" by sellers??!! I doubt HOL's rarity rating would influence much of the lunacy exhibited by Ebay bidders having too much money to spend and lacking impulse control!!

If you want to include a rarity scale - values should be given on descent research and consideration. I see a problem in handling this with only two or three members.

If you want to give real information on rarity - then it deserves a good beating.

Putting humour aside, I am inclined to agree with you. I'm a firm believer in doing something well or not at all. Having said that, though, the rarity scale is supposed to serve as a guide and not be taken as holy gospel, as it is inevitable that people (even collectors) will disagree.

I'm not behind the scenes and this is not meant offensive (!) but @DrBong do you really check the market every day for years - worldwide (and not from Australia) and even on games you already own?

No offense taken. To answer your question, I check Ebay, TradeMe, AmiBench and a few other sites most weeks and keep an eye on the game lists of Amiga retailers. Been doing this regularly since 1996/97 and I've been buying Amiga games in quantity since 1994/95.

It's hard not to notice games that I already own. Over the course of time it's also difficult not to accumulate large volumes of doubles just to get hold of the rarer jewels that appear in Amiga game bundles.

I'm not saying you personally aren't able to rate a game (as being one of the top10 collectors here) but I would consider to "build a rating team" of 5-10 decent collectors (or even "Resellers") to give more attention to the rating system - besides for one or two members (as it seems the rating is based on) a "good and true value" is difficult to obtain (and would deserve hours of hunting down games worldwide)...

Good idea in theory, but it may prove difficult in practice trying to recruit a number of committed raters. The dynamic nature of rarity ratings with passing time is also a big problem. Definitely an interesting idea, though, that we'll discuss as a team.

In the meantime, if you find anymore examples of dubious rarity ratings in HOL, then please sing out and tell us why you don't agree Even PM me if you dare!