Will the PSP kill off 2D forever?

Dastardly · 14 August 2003, 23:58

Ive just read an article in a magazine about the potential end of 2D gaming.
Will Sonys decision to get in on the handheld market spell the end for the GBA and 2D gaming? Or do you think that even Sony wont be able to budge Nintendos domination?
Do you think that the handhelds are all going to be 3D soon anyway and it doesnt matter who does it?

Are the days of the 2D game numbered?

SabreGolly · 15 August 2003, 01:14

Think you could be right, certainly for current commercial console games. 2D will live on with home coders though, I'm sure.

Everyone said that the GBA would herald a return to 2D gaming and be great for the retro scene. There have certainly been plenty of 'remakes' of classic SNES (and amiga) games, but not as many new and original games as I'd hoped for so far.

I can only think of Oddworld on the PS as a really up to date 2D game. When this came out I thought it would start a trend, and there would be a rash of 2D platformers to follow it - but no. Even the M$ exbox sequel ended up full on 3D.

Realistic/ believable/ immersive environments are what people want today - and that's best served up in 3D. I worry though that games today are looking and playing more and more alike, and frequent and old time gamers like ourselves may get fatigued with them all.

I just hope some major developers have the sense/courage to try some different things on the consoles, especially the PSP, and some of these might be some good old 2D action. Real surprises and outstandingly original concepts are becoming less and less frequent in the commercial gaming world.

I hope with the PSP they will make different kinds of game. I suppose it will sell well enough (I know I'm tempted) for them to make niche titles for it wich are still profitable. Hand held games need depth, but also need a 'pick up and play for 5 mins and put down' style - very different to what's been served up on the PS2, XB and GC recently.

We live in interesting times...

FromWithin · 15 August 2003, 02:24

Quote:

Originally posted by SabreGolly
I hope with the PSP they will make different kinds of game.

They? "They" are third party developers who have to pay tons of cash to Sony for the "honour" of making a game for their piece of hardware. With a low profit margin, publishers have to bet on the safe option (like a clone/sequel/licence) to get larger sales and be sure of breaking even. Home coders are effectively locked out of the system and the simpler games do not get made.

The way most companies are run in this industry is appalling. Nobody is learning from their, or their cohorts', mistakes. I would equate many managers in the industry with those horrific school teachers who want to keep you in your place so that they can enjoy their little power trip.

The industry is absolutely stuffed full of original ideas that don't see the light of day because no publisher will touch them for fear of failing.

The PSP will just have the same type of games as any other console. 2D games are highly unlikely.

The XGameStation, the GP32, the PC, or the mobile phones are the last bastions of 2D gaming.

But, to be honest, it's largely irrelevant. 2D or 3D, it doesn't matter. Only the game matters.

Unknown_K · 15 August 2003, 06:51

Somebody will make a few good 2d games at some point in the future that sell alot of games and then the other developers will come to rip them off and do it also.

Whatever gets old and forgotten will eventual be new and different after a decade or so (works with clothing, music, and games).

It takes alot of power to properly do a 3d game on a handheld unit (unless its real expensive).

I dont think the GBA will go away just like the psx2 didnt shrivel up and die when a more powerfull console (xbox) came out. The reason is a very large game library.

Now when nintendo tries to make a new handheld that isnt compatible to the current model then things could change.

killergorilla · 15 August 2003, 12:50

Hitler owns the industry. Only one type of game is allowed.

It's just a little bit of history repeating.

SabreGolly · 15 August 2003, 14:24

Sony and co would be insane to ignore the GBA, and do PS & PS2 style games for the PSP. I love my GBA, and the range and quality of the software is still good despite what I said above.

Games like WarioWare and Advance Wars would be laughed at on the current 'big' consoles, but suit the GBA perfectly - they are immediate, no messing and fun.

Thats what will sell. Unless Sony make it clear, and give incentives to the software houses, to produce differents sorts of titles, then their beloved PSP (and their money) will wither away and die.

They make money producing games that people want to play. On a handheld graphical style matters far less, as you can't show off, and on a little screen mad graphic effects loose their impact. We want quick personal gratification (oo-er!) from our handheld games (missus!).

If they go on producing the big blockbuster formulaic crap for the PSP, people wont buy it. They play that sort of game on their PS2 or GC - so what is the point?

They go down that path at their peril.

Dastardly · 15 August 2003, 14:27

Quote:

Originally posted by SabreGolly

If they go on producing the big blockbuster formulaic crap for the PSP, people wont buy it. They play that sort of game on their PS2 or GC - so what is the point?

Unfortunately I dont share your faith in the public.

killergorilla · 15 August 2003, 14:30

Nintendo won't stick with the GBA when the PSP comes out. They may for a while just to test the water but it's almost guaranteed they have something else in the wings.

They held back the SP after they had the hardware for ages...

Dastardly · 15 August 2003, 14:34

The SP is what Nintendo should have released originally. The unlit GBA was a disgrace and the only reason Im not getting an SP is because of my Afterburner. For comfort while playing I actually prefer the shape of the GBA over the SP though.

killergorilla · 15 August 2003, 15:05

Yeah the SP is too small for my man hands.

I can't believe they got rid of the standard head phone socket either. AND they should have given it six buttons to play all those snes ports PROPERLY. 4 buttons is stupid.

Unknown_K · 15 August 2003, 15:55

Quote:

Originally posted by killergorilla
Yeah the SP is too small for my man hands.

Maybe your thinking of another small thing you have.

killergorilla · 15 August 2003, 15:58

I do own a small pin badge of sonic

ant512 · 15 August 2003, 16:17

Quote:

Originally posted by SabreGolly
Games like WarioWare and Advance Wars would be laughed at on the current 'big' consoles, but suit the GBA perfectly - they are immediate, no messing and fun.

I'm going to be controversial for a moment*: Wario Ware is crap. I know that the peeps at Digiworld think it is the best game ever since the last best game ever, but it's still crap. Game appears - press A. Game appears - press left, press up. Game appears - etc.

How is this any different to tedious dance mat games (arrow appears, put foot on front pad; arrow appears, put foot on left pad), or Mega CD "Time Gal" or laserdisc "Dragon's Lair" (dragon lunges, press button)? These games were all universally hated for being too repetitive and simplistic. "Rick Dangerous" was more advanced, gameplay-wise, but the Digiworld peeps (in their AP days) hated that too.

How can a tedious, simplistic test of reflexes and memory earn such high regard? If it was a Flash game on the net, would anyone play it for more than 30 seconds?

An argument in its favour is that it returns to gaming's roots - it is, as Sabre says "immediate fun". However, back in the good old days of the Speccy we had decent games like "Jetpac" and "Manic Miner", and *still* had no reason to play simplistic pap like Wario Ware.

Is the next big GBA game going to be a test of how fast players can waggle the joypad? Or guess a number?

It all comes down to personal opinion in the end, of course, but I still can't see why anyone would want to spend £30 on a sub-PD quality game.

*Might have ranted about this before, but hey! I don't claim to be original.

killergorilla · 15 August 2003, 16:23

I'm overcome with guilt. I have to admit the truth that I do not actually own a sonic pin badge.

I couldn't decieve you guys.

I've not played Wario Ware yet but I'll be sure to give it a whizz because it has had a lot of interesting reviews.

fisken uno · 15 August 2003, 16:28

Quote:

Originally posted by killergorilla
I'm overcome with guilt. I have to admit the truth that I do not actually own a sonic pin badge.

I couldn't decieve you guys.

It's ok killer. If you'd have come up with FromWithin's backup prog you would have been a lucky owner of a Psygnosis badge, though!! I know I would've wanted it!

killergorilla · 15 August 2003, 16:35

Thanks Fisken, I feel better now.

I do have a Micro Machines 2 key ring which is helping me recover.

FromWithin · 15 August 2003, 18:34

Quote:

Originally posted by fisken uno
It's ok killer. If you'd have come up with FromWithin's backup prog you would have been a lucky owner of a Psygnosis badge, though!! I know I would've wanted it!

Speaking of which....still no-one has come up with thing, so the badge is still available....

SabreGolly · 15 August 2003, 18:39

Quote:

Originally posted by ant512
I'm going to be controversial for a moment*: Wario Ware is crap.

That's me told!

I think I like it so much for the 'one more go - beat the high score' mentality of old which it brings back. It has loads of unlockables too - and a real sense of building up the panic. But thats my opinion.

I wouldn't think it would be everyone's cup of tea - that's the point. Its different, reasonably original and doesn't appeal to everyone.

Thats what we want - more games released that take a risk and dare to be different.

Dizzy · 15 August 2003, 20:45

Quote:

Originally posted by killergorilla
Thanks Fisken, I feel better now.

I do have a Micro Machines 2 key ring which is helping me recover.

You can have mine Vote for Bush pin if you like

I love Bill G streamer

14 August 2003, 23:58	#1
Dastardly Into the Wonderful Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: England Age: 49 Posts: 2,335	Will the PSP kill off 2D forever? Ive just read an article in a magazine about the potential end of 2D gaming. Will Sonys decision to get in on the handheld market spell the end for the GBA and 2D gaming? Or do you think that even Sony wont be able to budge Nintendos domination? Do you think that the handhelds are all going to be 3D soon anyway and it doesnt matter who does it? Are the days of the 2D game numbered?

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15 August 2003, 01:14	#2
SabreGolly Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cheshire/UK Age: 52 Posts: 77	Think you could be right, certainly for current commercial console games. 2D will live on with home coders though, I'm sure. Everyone said that the GBA would herald a return to 2D gaming and be great for the retro scene. There have certainly been plenty of 'remakes' of classic SNES (and amiga) games, but not as many new and original games as I'd hoped for so far. I can only think of Oddworld on the PS as a really up to date 2D game. When this came out I thought it would start a trend, and there would be a rash of 2D platformers to follow it - but no. Even the M$ exbox sequel ended up full on 3D. Realistic/ believable/ immersive environments are what people want today - and that's best served up in 3D. I worry though that games today are looking and playing more and more alike, and frequent and old time gamers like ourselves may get fatigued with them all. I just hope some major developers have the sense/courage to try some different things on the consoles, especially the PSP, and some of these might be some good old 2D action. Real surprises and outstandingly original concepts are becoming less and less frequent in the commercial gaming world. I hope with the PSP they will make different kinds of game. I suppose it will sell well enough (I know I'm tempted) for them to make niche titles for it wich are still profitable. Hand held games need depth, but also need a 'pick up and play for 5 mins and put down' style - very different to what's been served up on the PS2, XB and GC recently. We live in interesting times...

15 August 2003, 06:51	#4
Unknown_K Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio/USA Age: 55 Posts: 1,380	Somebody will make a few good 2d games at some point in the future that sell alot of games and then the other developers will come to rip them off and do it also. Whatever gets old and forgotten will eventual be new and different after a decade or so (works with clothing, music, and games). It takes alot of power to properly do a 3d game on a handheld unit (unless its real expensive). I dont think the GBA will go away just like the psx2 didnt shrivel up and die when a more powerfull console (xbox) came out. The reason is a very large game library. Now when nintendo tries to make a new handheld that isnt compatible to the current model then things could change.

15 August 2003, 12:50	#5
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	Hitler owns the industry. Only one type of game is allowed. It's just a little bit of history repeating.

15 August 2003, 14:24	#6
SabreGolly Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cheshire/UK Age: 52 Posts: 77	Sony and co would be insane to ignore the GBA, and do PS & PS2 style games for the PSP. I love my GBA, and the range and quality of the software is still good despite what I said above. Games like WarioWare and Advance Wars would be laughed at on the current 'big' consoles, but suit the GBA perfectly - they are immediate, no messing and fun. Thats what will sell. Unless Sony make it clear, and give incentives to the software houses, to produce differents sorts of titles, then their beloved PSP (and their money) will wither away and die. They make money producing games that people want to play. On a handheld graphical style matters far less, as you can't show off, and on a little screen mad graphic effects loose their impact. We want quick personal gratification (oo-er!) from our handheld games (missus!). If they go on producing the big blockbuster formulaic crap for the PSP, people wont buy it. They play that sort of game on their PS2 or GC - so what is the point? They go down that path at their peril.

15 August 2003, 14:30	#8
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	Nintendo won't stick with the GBA when the PSP comes out. They may for a while just to test the water but it's almost guaranteed they have something else in the wings. They held back the SP after they had the hardware for ages...

15 August 2003, 14:34	#9
Dastardly Into the Wonderful Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: England Age: 49 Posts: 2,335	The SP is what Nintendo should have released originally. The unlit GBA was a disgrace and the only reason Im not getting an SP is because of my Afterburner. For comfort while playing I actually prefer the shape of the GBA over the SP though.

15 August 2003, 15:05	#10
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	Yeah the SP is too small for my man hands. I can't believe they got rid of the standard head phone socket either. AND they should have given it six buttons to play all those snes ports PROPERLY. 4 buttons is stupid.

15 August 2003, 15:58	#12
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	I do own a small pin badge of sonic

15 August 2003, 16:23	#14
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	I'm overcome with guilt. I have to admit the truth that I do not actually own a sonic pin badge. I couldn't decieve you guys. I've not played Wario Ware yet but I'll be sure to give it a whizz because it has had a lot of interesting reviews.

15 August 2003, 16:35	#16
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	Thanks Fisken, I feel better now. I do have a Micro Machines 2 key ring which is helping me recover.

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