A4000 chip memory and other questions

T_hairy_bootson · 25 July 2006, 12:52

I picked up a couple of A4000s a couple of weeks ago. They are in less than perfect condition as you can see from these pics:

They came with the cases heavily modified as they were used as horse racing video gambling machines. When I got them they were missing simms and an accelerator. I have one A3640 so far and some double sided 8meg simms which don't seem to work. I ripped the custom display cards out of one of them but I can't really test further until I get some compatible ram. Both just boot to a black/dark gray screen at the moment.

I need to know what kind of ram needs to be used for chip ram and fast ram. I have seen various adds on ebay for simms but not sure if they would be compatible. Anyone got some for sale or any suggestions for what kind of ram I should be looking for?

thomas · 25 July 2006, 13:02

If you run it without RAM, the screen should show all green and the power LED should flash. If it doesn't do that, you don't need to get RAM, it won't work anyway.

You should use a 2MB SIMM for Chip RAM as the Amiga cannot handle more than 2MB. But AFAIK you should be able to use 4MB or 8MB SIMMs, too. It will only see 1MB of the 4MB and 2MB of the 8MB, though.

T_hairy_bootson · 25 July 2006, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

If you run it without RAM, the screen should show all green and the power LED should flash. If it doesn't do that, you don't need to get RAM, it won't work anyway.

So they are both stuffed then?

BinoX · 25 July 2006, 17:51

I dunno.... I wouldn't say their busted...

Pretty much take out everything you can (including chips) and re-mount them... if it's old it'll probably have some stuff not touching correctly...

They look cool though.. where did u get them? An old arcade or something?

alexh · 25 July 2006, 18:11

They look VERY interesting.

They dont seem to have the A4000 Daughter board in place...

There is a connection from the Parallel port (some sort of control) to the custom video cards (which seem to be independant of the Amiga).

The Amiga video out goes out of the Amiga and then into these video cards. (I suspect they are some form of Scandoublers).

I wonder if there is two outputs because they were some form of stereoscopic output (virtual reality?)

Have you checked they have kickstart ROMS? I would be suprised if they didnt have custom ROMS.

I notice they have had their battery removed.

T_hairy_bootson · 26 July 2006, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by BinoX

Pretty much take out everything you can (including chips) and re-mount them... if it's old it'll probably have some stuff not touching correctly...

They look cool though.. where did u get them? An old arcade or something?

I have tried that, they are missing daughterboards and disk drives already.

I got them from a friend who rescued them from a dumpster. The company that owned them just threw them out when they were replaced by newer games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

There is a connection from the Parallel port (some sort of control) to the custom video cards (which seem to be independant of the Amiga).

The Amiga video out goes out of the Amiga and then into these video cards. (I suspect they are some form of Scandoublers).

I wonder if there is two outputs because they were some form of stereoscopic output (virtual reality?)

Have you checked they have kickstart ROMS? I would be suprised if they didnt have custom ROMS.

Yeah a website I found described them as multi display networked horse racing games. They were used in gambling venues. So I think the cards just allowed multiple screens to be fitted displaying different graphics at the same time.

The kickstart roms look like normal Kickstart 3.0 roms.

patrik · 26 July 2006, 13:00

@bootson:

Make sure the motherboard INT/EXT jumper pair is jumpered EXT if an A3640 is used.

If I remember correctly, the chipram needs a doublesided simm to give 2MB ram, otherwise it will give you 1MB, so try the doublesided 8MB simm there. As long as it is doublesided and atleast 2MB. It is the simm-socket closest to the daughterboard connector btw.

In the fastram simm slots, it is easiest to use singlesided 4MB simms. You have to start adding them from the simm socket closest to the chipram simm, or else it wont start.

I have heard that doublesided 8MB can be used if you set a jumper on the motherboard somewhere

and put the first one in simm socket next-next to the chipram-simm (one empty socket between it and the chipram simm) and the second one in the last simm socket. You cant really fit doublesided simms any other way actually, if the chipram simm is in place and you start adding them from the right direction.

Nevertheless try it with just the chipram simm added first, to remove an unecessary source of error.

alexh · 26 July 2006, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

Yeah a website I found described them as multi display networked horse racing games.

Link?

Pitty the hard drives are gone. Without them the chances of getting the custom hardware to do anything in the future is nill

Zetr0 · 26 July 2006, 13:45

unless one finds the company that made them?

T_hairy_bootson · 26 July 2006, 14:22

I know the company that made them, but lets just say asking them for help could get my friend in trouble with his current employers. Gambling machines are to be destroyed once they are decomisioned to hide any secrets that could help possible cheaters.

The hard drives were delibrately removed and destroyed.

alexh · 26 July 2006, 14:23

Not 100% true as I buy and sell them all the time.

Zetr0 · 26 July 2006, 15:05

imma guessing it depends on the company ethos, its a shame though.

could i ask a favour though Bootson, could you or would you remove and photograph each board (including that really small one between boards) in these machines? these could be a help diagnose other types of machine and most likey of interest to collectors.

it would look real nice on the AHA web site as well as BBOAH and Amiga Database rx.

you have a great find, and i for one are envious lol, (i am sure alexh is too, he is just pretending he isn`t

)

now remeber you must photograph them like some one form CSI and then wrap them up in love hugs and bundles of fluffy wool

, in fact you could give them a hug from me.

T_hairy_bootson · 26 July 2006, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

you have a great find, and i for one are envious lol, (i am sure alexh is too, he is just pretending he isn`t

)

I'll trade you one of the video cards for a working A4000

I will take some better photos of the cards when I get a chance. I have already removed one of them from one of the A4000s.

alexh · 26 July 2006, 16:23

If you werent in Oz I would take you up on that.

As ZetrO says you have some rocking horse poo there mate

Zetr0 · 27 July 2006, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

If you werent in Oz I would take you up on that.

As ZetrO says you have some rocking horse poo there mate

Hell oif i had an A4000 i might even take you up on that LOL.

good luck with them THB

may i get to see pictures of them video cards soon... immma currious tio se what logic there running as a clue to a chipset.... hmmm theres a 4000 on ebay for a £150..... hmmmmm

no i mustn't do it... i promised i'd take the wife out.... anniversary and all that...

Secret Vampire · 28 July 2006, 09:59

Looking at the expansion boards, they should in theory work in any machine, since they only use the parallel port and analogue video (One wonders why they didn't make it as a video slot card).

Anyway, the little board is produced by Averkey, who make various scan converter type devices, so my theory is thus: The software is simultaneously outputting 2 displays worth of video, either using an interlaced mode, and using one field for each display, or using alternate frames for each display. The main boards would be scandoublers and video buffers to give an acceptable refresh rate, and the small board with parallel port connection provides the switching function to determine which board is using the video signal at a given time.

The boards do seem quite complex for a scandoubler though, I've got a couple of video slot ones, and the component count is quite low, even using older tech (74 series logic and a handful of PALs) than the ones in question, though of course, they're using the digital output, so no need to digitise the video prior to scandoubling.

Zetr0 · 28 July 2006, 22:23

you know they could be early planner to chunky boards as well as scan doubling.

alexh · 29 July 2006, 11:15

Planar even

T_hairy_bootson · 04 August 2006, 16:52

Guys I think the A3640 is dead.

If I turn the A4000 on without the A3640 the result is exactly the same grey screen. I would like someone to test the A3640 for me. So if anyone in Australia or New Zealand can do this for me please let me know.

Also if someone could try switching on their A4000 without the accelerator in and describe the resulting screen I would appreciate it.

With Jumper J500 in this position I get a grey screen.
[]
.

In this position I get a grey screen with a little bit of purple at the very bottom of the screen.
.
[]

You may need to adjust the screen size so you can see the black edges and turn the brightness up on the monitor to see the purple.

keropi · 04 August 2006, 17:42

I remember when powering my a4000 without an accel, there was no color on the screen, but then, it is questionable if it really works 100%... and it has those damned 40.70 roms...

25 July 2006, 12:52	#1
T_hairy_bootson Workbitch 1.3 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 47 Posts: 2,084	A4000 chip memory and other questions I picked up a couple of A4000s a couple of weeks ago. They are in less than perfect condition as you can see from these pics: They came with the cases heavily modified as they were used as horse racing video gambling machines. When I got them they were missing simms and an accelerator. I have one A3640 so far and some double sided 8meg simms which don't seem to work. I ripped the custom display cards out of one of them but I can't really test further until I get some compatible ram. Both just boot to a black/dark gray screen at the moment. I need to know what kind of ram needs to be used for chip ram and fast ram. I have seen various adds on ebay for simms but not sure if they would be compatible. Anyone got some for sale or any suggestions for what kind of ram I should be looking for?

25 July 2006, 18:11	#5
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,465	They look VERY interesting. They dont seem to have the A4000 Daughter board in place... There is a connection from the Parallel port (some sort of control) to the custom video cards (which seem to be independant of the Amiga). The Amiga video out goes out of the Amiga and then into these video cards. (I suspect they are some form of Scandoublers). I wonder if there is two outputs because they were some form of stereoscopic output (virtual reality?) Have you checked they have kickstart ROMS? I would be suprised if they didnt have custom ROMS. I notice they have had their battery removed. Last edited by alexh; 25 July 2006 at 18:29.

26 July 2006, 13:00	#7
patrik Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Umeå Age: 43 Posts: 935	@bootson: Make sure the motherboard INT/EXT jumper pair is jumpered EXT if an A3640 is used. If I remember correctly, the chipram needs a doublesided simm to give 2MB ram, otherwise it will give you 1MB, so try the doublesided 8MB simm there. As long as it is doublesided and atleast 2MB. It is the simm-socket closest to the daughterboard connector btw. In the fastram simm slots, it is easiest to use singlesided 4MB simms. You have to start adding them from the simm socket closest to the chipram simm, or else it wont start. I have heard that doublesided 8MB can be used if you set a jumper on the motherboard somewhere and put the first one in simm socket next-next to the chipram-simm (one empty socket between it and the chipram simm) and the second one in the last simm socket. You cant really fit doublesided simms any other way actually, if the chipram simm is in place and you start adding them from the right direction. Nevertheless try it with just the chipram simm added first, to remove an unecessary source of error. Last edited by patrik; 26 July 2006 at 13:38.

04 August 2006, 16:52	#19
T_hairy_bootson Workbitch 1.3 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 47 Posts: 2,084	Guys I think the A3640 is dead. If I turn the A4000 on without the A3640 the result is exactly the same grey screen. I would like someone to test the A3640 for me. So if anyone in Australia or New Zealand can do this for me please let me know. Also if someone could try switching on their A4000 without the accelerator in and describe the resulting screen I would appreciate it. With Jumper J500 in this position I get a grey screen. [] . In this position I get a grey screen with a little bit of purple at the very bottom of the screen. . [] You may need to adjust the screen size so you can see the black edges and turn the brightness up on the monitor to see the purple. Last edited by T_hairy_bootson; 04 August 2006 at 17:02.

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25 July 2006, 13:02	#2
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,026	If you run it without RAM, the screen should show all green and the power LED should flash. If it doesn't do that, you don't need to get RAM, it won't work anyway. You should use a 2MB SIMM for Chip RAM as the Amiga cannot handle more than 2MB. But AFAIK you should be able to use 4MB or 8MB SIMMs, too. It will only see 1MB of the 4MB and 2MB of the 8MB, though.

25 July 2006, 17:51	#4
BinoX Miggy Man Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom Age: 40 Posts: 831	I dunno.... I wouldn't say their busted... Pretty much take out everything you can (including chips) and re-mount them... if it's old it'll probably have some stuff not touching correctly... They look cool though.. where did u get them? An old arcade or something?

26 July 2006, 13:45	#9
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	unless one finds the company that made them?

26 July 2006, 14:22	#10
T_hairy_bootson Workbitch 1.3 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 47 Posts: 2,084	I know the company that made them, but lets just say asking them for help could get my friend in trouble with his current employers. Gambling machines are to be destroyed once they are decomisioned to hide any secrets that could help possible cheaters. The hard drives were delibrately removed and destroyed.

26 July 2006, 14:23	#11
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,465	Not 100% true as I buy and sell them all the time.

26 July 2006, 15:05	#12
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	imma guessing it depends on the company ethos, its a shame though. could i ask a favour though Bootson, could you or would you remove and photograph each board (including that really small one between boards) in these machines? these could be a help diagnose other types of machine and most likey of interest to collectors. it would look real nice on the AHA web site as well as BBOAH and Amiga Database rx. you have a great find, and i for one are envious lol, (i am sure alexh is too, he is just pretending he isn`t ) now remeber you must photograph them like some one form CSI and then wrap them up in love hugs and bundles of fluffy wool , in fact you could give them a hug from me.

26 July 2006, 16:23	#14
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,465	If you werent in Oz I would take you up on that. As ZetrO says you have some rocking horse poo there mate

28 July 2006, 09:59	#16
Secret Vampire Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Birmingham UK Age: 43 Posts: 214	Looking at the expansion boards, they should in theory work in any machine, since they only use the parallel port and analogue video (One wonders why they didn't make it as a video slot card). Anyway, the little board is produced by Averkey, who make various scan converter type devices, so my theory is thus: The software is simultaneously outputting 2 displays worth of video, either using an interlaced mode, and using one field for each display, or using alternate frames for each display. The main boards would be scandoublers and video buffers to give an acceptable refresh rate, and the small board with parallel port connection provides the switching function to determine which board is using the video signal at a given time. The boards do seem quite complex for a scandoubler though, I've got a couple of video slot ones, and the component count is quite low, even using older tech (74 series logic and a handful of PALs) than the ones in question, though of course, they're using the digital output, so no need to digitise the video prior to scandoubling.

28 July 2006, 22:23	#17
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	you know they could be early planner to chunky boards as well as scan doubling.

29 July 2006, 11:15	#18
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,465	Planar even

04 August 2006, 17:42	#20
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	I remember when powering my a4000 without an accel, there was no color on the screen, but then, it is questionable if it really works 100%... and it has those damned 40.70 roms...

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