Problematic Demos. - Page 42

amilo3438 · 29 August 2021, 18:05

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The Announce (Demo) by Bonzai

[A500 1.3 ECS 1MB] Some glitch appears on screen at the beginning of the demo!

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Toni Wilen · 29 August 2021, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

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The Announce (Demo) by Bonzai

[A500 1.3 ECS 1MB] Some glitch appears on screen at the beginning of the demo!

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A500 confirmed. (Few frames of bitplane garbage at start, strange single flicker in BNZ vector object)

btw, Circle Scroller (Demo) by United Forces and Boze and Bobs (Demo) by Area 08 won't be fixed in next beta.

amilo3438 · 29 August 2021, 18:41

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Megademo - The Credits (Demo) by Alarm

[A500 1.3 OCS] Some glitch appears if OCS! (log says "BPL refresh conflict)

Ps. It seems to be the ECS only demo, but anyway to be sure...

EDIT: Which warnings from the log to ignore and which to report ? (I guess some are more important than the others.)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

btw, Circle Scroller (Demo) by United Forces and Boze and Bobs (Demo) by Area 08 won't be fixed in next beta.

So somehow I expected that too! (it seems a bit of a more difficult problem)

Toni Wilen · 29 August 2021, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

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Megademo - The Credits (Demo) by Alarm

[A500 1.3 OCS] Some glitch appears if OCS! (log says "BPL refresh conflict)

Ps. It seems to be the ECS only demo, but anyway to be sure...

EDIT: Which warnings from the log to ignore and which to report ? (I guess some are more important than the others.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, it needs ECS. OCS = vertical sprite line.

One or few messages at startup/when display "mode" changes can be normal (display parameter change in "bad" position) .

Multiple continuous messages usually cause visible glitches.

Quote:

So somehow I expected that too! (it seems a bit of a more difficult problem)

Yeah. I tested similar code on real A500 and it works exactly like in emulation. Which means problem isn't blitter (which is the "cause" for this problem but it is correct change) but something else. Probably. I am going to check the demo with logic analyzer later.

amilo3438 · 29 August 2021, 21:40

Tested in WinUAE 4900b31.
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CEN Demo (Demo) by Rare

[A500 1.3 OCS/ECS 512+512] Some glitches appears on the left screen moving side in OCS & ECS! (In the ECS the 3D rotating object looks different!)

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Our Crew (Demo) by Rare

[A500 1.3 OCS/ECS 512+512] Some glitches appears on the screen bottom! (On the link picture there is no glitches?)

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A Cocobobs (Demo) by Chrome

[A500 1.3 OCS/ ECS 512+512] Some glitch appears in the middle at the beginning of the demo!

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Turtle Demo (Demo) by Dexion

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Some interesting glitch appears on the Turtle after the balloons part if ECS!

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Below is tested on fixed winuae.7z! (30.09.2021.)
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Lameintro (Intro) by Browbeat

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Some glitches above the first letter B! (and also some others) EDIT: Already confirmed on page 21 post #404!

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Conan Striking Back (Demo) by Powerlords

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Some glitch appears on bottom scroller right side!

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Triangle (Demo) by Software Of Sweden

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Glitches if ECS!

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First Demo (Demo) by Starline

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Glitches if ECS!

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Seven Up (Demo) by Defcon

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] If ECS missing half bobs (pic.3 on the link)? (looks fine in OCS)(Note: Released 1991-01)

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amilo3438 · 01 September 2021, 07:23

An interesting case! Working fine in OCS but there are missing half of bobs in ECS?

(see on above post)

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8th Union (Demo) by Cave

[A500 1.3 OCS/ECS 512+512] Some glitches start to appears after a while! (seems fine in 4400)

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Bleed Part 2 Intro -The Terror Continues- (Intro) by Dual Crew

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Upper part of word DUAL glitches if ECS! (fine in OCS)

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New MAD Demo (Intro) by Mad Team

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Glitches if ECS!

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La Weird (Demo) by Cave

[A500 1.3 OCS/ECS 512+512] It stops at penultimate part "The Lamer Exterminator" with empty screen... not possible to LMB to the last part! (seems fine in 4400)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Toni Wilen · 03 September 2021, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

CEN Demo (Demo) by Rare

[A500 1.3 OCS/ECS 512+512] Some glitches appears on the left screen moving side in OCS & ECS! (In the ECS the 3D rotating object looks different!)

Scroller glitch (left side and line below scroller having garbage) confirmed. Vector objects are correct on real ECS A500. This needs to be investigated more.

Quote:

Our Crew (Demo) by Rare

[A500 1.3 OCS/ECS 512+512] Some glitches appears on the screen bottom! (On the link picture there is no glitches?)

ECS A500 confirmed. Picture probably has cut that part. Usual garbage in overscan because normal TV was used when it was coded etc.. (and garbage also appears below the scroller)

Quote:

A Cocobobs (Demo) by Chrome

[A500 1.3 OCS/ ECS 512+512] Some glitch appears in the middle at the beginning of the demo!

ECS A500 confirmed.

Quote:

Turtle Demo (Demo) by Dexion

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Some interesting glitch appears on the Turtle after the balloons part if ECS!

ECS A500 confirmed. Screen also corrupted very badly later (only got some minor corruption on UAE but it probably also depends on memory contents before running the demo), it does bad things with blitter.

Quote:

Conan Striking Back (Demo) by Powerlords

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Some glitch appears on bottom scroller right side!

ECS A500 confirmed.

Quote:

Triangle (Demo) by Software Of Sweden

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Glitches if ECS!

Whole upper part of display is blank on real ECS A500. This is good enough because glitch behavior is not fully known, it is enough that it is obvious that something is wrong.

Quote:

First Demo (Demo) by Starline

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Glitches if ECS!

I don't see any glitches (UAE nor ECS A500)

Quote:

Seven Up (Demo) by Defcon

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] If ECS missing half bobs (pic.3 on the link)? (looks fine in OCS)(Note: Released 1991-01)

Confirmed on ECS A500. (Weird behavior..)

amilo3438 · 03 September 2021, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

I don't see any glitches (UAE nor ECS A500)

That is strange! I testing it now several time on b31 [QS A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] and every time the middle equalizer becomes garbled. (if OCS it is fine)

(tested both 32-bit and 64-bit versions with the same result)

EDIT: Same config [QS A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] but with 68010 = no problem!

Toni, are you sure the cycle-exact (Full) was checked during your test on WinUAE? (because if it is unchecked it works fine for me too!)

Btw. I do not see the purpose of the option "Compatibility vs required CPU power" -> best vs low compatibility in the newer versions of the WinUAE!?
It was ok once because of the much weaker power of the cpu, but today is it really necessary?

EDIT2: If "Subpixel display emulation" is checked it works in ECS + 68000 w/o glitches but there are no visible equalizer!?

Zarnal · 03 September 2021, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

That is strange! I testing it now several time on b31 [QS A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] and every time the middle equalizer becomes garbled. (if OCS it is fine)

(tested both 32-bit and 64-bit versions with the same result)

EDIT: Same config [QS A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] but with 68010 = no problem!

Note : same issue with b31+OCS 512+512 ( pic 1 )

amilo3438 · 03 September 2021, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarnal

Note : same issue with b31+OCS 512+512 ( pic 1 )

@amilo

demo is ok with only 512k.

That is strange even more! For me it does not work with only 512 Chip Ram!

As already mentioned, for me it works fine on QuickStart A500 OCS 512+512! (but with ECS only if 68010 is selected instead of default 68000)

EDIT: And yes, it is tested with cycle-exact both checked!

EDIT2: New finding: If "Subpixel display emulation" is checked it works in ECS + 68000 w/o glitches but also now w/o visible equalizer!?

Toni Wilen · 04 September 2021, 13:45

Obviously I use cycle-exact. (Other options are still useful, for example warp mode can be 10x+ faster in non-ce modes)

Please don't jump to conclusions. It looks like something goes wrong in some configuration options (including warp mode) causing weird side-effects.

Especially if something different (or nothing interesting at all) happens when it is changed on the fly vs from start.

Galahad/FLT · 04 September 2021, 13:55

Just want to say Amilo, good work on checking all these demos out, only makes WinUAE better and more accurate.

amilo3438 · 04 September 2021, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Just want to say Amilo, good work on checking all these demos out, only makes WinUAE better and more accurate.

Thanks! (finally someone who notices)

Otherwise I have to be careful not to burn out because then the game is over. (which is very easy in this "job")
So I only test when I feel like it and how much I want it. (and stress free)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Toni
Please do not forget on 4 more demos left in the post #826!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Toni Wilen · 04 September 2021, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

8th Union (Demo) by Cave

[A500 1.3 OCS/ECS 512+512] Some glitches start to appears after a while! (seems fine in 4400)

Glitches shouldn't happen. Probably same reason that causes other similar glitches.

Quote:

Bleed Part 2 Intro -The Terror Continues- (Intro) by Dual Crew

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Upper part of word DUAL glitches if ECS! (fine in OCS)

ECS A500 confirmed. This seems to have exact same reason as Rare-Cen but Rare-Cen does work correctly on same ECS config. (Negative line Y coordinate but unsigned multiplication resulting in out of bounds chip RAM address)

Quote:

New MAD Demo (Intro) by Mad Team

[A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Glitches if ECS!

Whole display glitches on real ECS A500.

Quote:

La Weird (Demo) by Cave

[A500 1.3 OCS/ECS 512+512] It stops at penultimate part "The Lamer Exterminator" with empty screen... not possible to LMB to the last part! (seems fine in 4400)

Can't duplicate. Perhaps it got fixed later or there is some mysterious bug I mentioned previously..

amilo3438 · 04 September 2021, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Can't duplicate. Perhaps it got fixed later or there is some mysterious bug I mentioned previously..

JFI.
I checked it on today's winuae.7z and it stops there on the same place no matter OCS or ECS A500 1.3 512 + 512 quickstart config. while the music continues to play.
Now I don't know if it only happens to me or also to someone else. (has anyone to confirm)

Zarnal · 04 September 2021, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

JFI.
I checked it on today's winuae.7z and it stops there on the same place no matter OCS or ECS A500 1.3 512 + 512 quickstart config. while the music continues to play.
Now I don't know if it only happens to me or also to someone else. (has anyone to confirm)

I confirm ( pic 1 ).

Edit : Result with WinUae 4.4 ( pic 2 ).

Note : You have to wait for the "cave" logo of the first scene before being able to switch to the next scene with the left mouse button ( bug is in part 3 ).

amilo3438 · 04 September 2021, 20:51

@ Zarnal
Thanks for checking!

EDIT: Could you retest the demo on your post #829 again but now with the quickstart A500 1.3 ECS 512+512 configuration + cycle-exact (Full)? (in order to confirm the problem)

Zarnal · 04 September 2021, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

@ Zarnal
Thanks for checking!

EDIT: Could you retest the demo on your post #829 again but now with the quickstart A500 1.3 ECS 512+512 configuration + cycle-exact (Full)? (in order to confirm the problem)

Yes ( pic 1 ).

Now, with latest WinUae.7z ( 20:09 ), a new issue appears : no equalizer and text has wrong colors.

Note : fine with OCS now.

amilo3438 · 04 September 2021, 22:55

Thanks!
I got the very similar result in ECS only if subpixel display emulation is enabled.
If it is disabled the equalizer is garbled.

Zarnal · 04 September 2021, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438

Thanks!
I got the very similar result in ECS only if subpixel display emulation is enabled.
If it is disabled the equalizer is garbled.

It's probably accidental. This option is only necessary in AGA ( at least for some demos, Complex/Dive first part before ship scene or Xtc/The Unknown for example, see here ).

29 August 2021, 21:40	#825
amilo3438 Amiga 500 User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: EU Posts: 1,501	Tested in WinUAE 4900b31. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CEN Demo (Demo) by Rare [A500 1.3 OCS/ECS 512+512] Some glitches appears on the left screen moving side in OCS & ECS! (In the ECS the 3D rotating object looks different!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Our Crew (Demo) by Rare [A500 1.3 OCS/ECS 512+512] Some glitches appears on the screen bottom! (On the link picture there is no glitches?) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Cocobobs (Demo) by Chrome [A500 1.3 OCS/ ECS 512+512] Some glitch appears in the middle at the beginning of the demo! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turtle Demo (Demo) by Dexion [A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Some interesting glitch appears on the Turtle after the balloons part if ECS! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Below is tested on fixed winuae.7z! (30.09.2021.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lameintro (Intro) by Browbeat [A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Some glitches above the first letter B! (and also some others) EDIT: Already confirmed on page 21 post #404! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Conan Striking Back (Demo) by Powerlords [A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Some glitch appears on bottom scroller right side! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Triangle (Demo) by Software Of Sweden [A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Glitches if ECS! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First Demo (Demo) by Starline [A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Glitches if ECS! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Seven Up (Demo) by Defcon [A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] If ECS missing half bobs (pic.3 on the link)? (looks fine in OCS)(Note: Released 1991-01) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last edited by amilo3438; 01 September 2021 at 07:24.

01 September 2021, 07:23	#826
amilo3438 Amiga 500 User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: EU Posts: 1,501	Seven Up (Demo) by Defcon An interesting case! Working fine in OCS but there are missing half of bobs in ECS? (see on above post) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8th Union (Demo) by Cave [A500 1.3 OCS/ECS 512+512] Some glitches start to appears after a while! (seems fine in 4400) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bleed Part 2 Intro -The Terror Continues- (Intro) by Dual Crew [A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Upper part of word DUAL glitches if ECS! (fine in OCS) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- New MAD Demo (Intro) by Mad Team [A500 1.3 ECS 512+512] Glitches if ECS! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- La Weird (Demo) by Cave [A500 1.3 OCS/ECS 512+512] It stops at penultimate part "The Lamer Exterminator" with empty screen... not possible to LMB to the last part! (seems fine in 4400) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last edited by amilo3438; 01 September 2021 at 13:58.

04 September 2021, 20:51	#837
amilo3438 Amiga 500 User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: EU Posts: 1,501	@ Zarnal Thanks for checking! EDIT: Could you retest the demo on your post #829 again but now with the quickstart A500 1.3 ECS 512+512 configuration + cycle-exact (Full)? (in order to confirm the problem) Last edited by amilo3438; 04 September 2021 at 21:09.

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29 August 2021, 18:05	#821
amilo3438 Amiga 500 User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: EU Posts: 1,501	----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Announce (Demo) by Bonzai [A500 1.3 ECS 1MB] Some glitch appears on screen at the beginning of the demo! -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

04 September 2021, 13:45	#831
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	Obviously I use cycle-exact. (Other options are still useful, for example warp mode can be 10x+ faster in non-ce modes) Please don't jump to conclusions. It looks like something goes wrong in some configuration options (including warp mode) causing weird side-effects. Especially if something different (or nothing interesting at all) happens when it is changed on the fly vs from start.

04 September 2021, 13:55	#832
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Just want to say Amilo, good work on checking all these demos out, only makes WinUAE better and more accurate.

04 September 2021, 22:55	#839
amilo3438 Amiga 500 User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: EU Posts: 1,501	Thanks! I got the very similar result in ECS only if subpixel display emulation is enabled. If it is disabled the equalizer is garbled.

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