Sonic the Hedgehog C64 - video trailer

[Pyromania]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

the megadrive version is almost fully coded in full ASM68K.

That’s the version that should be ported to AmigaOS.

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by rothers

That's quite something, it's hard to believe it's real! I'm loving all these new C64 & Spectrum games pushing the limits.

Indeed. Two of the most active retrogaming communities in the world. The Spectrum one has a tremendous outpouring of games to about 2 to 3 PER DAY. How I wished the Amiga community was as productive. Granted, it's easier to make games for the Spectrum than to make them for the Amiga and in the Spectrum case the AGD engine aided productivity tremendously (let's hope the Scorpion engine does the same for the Amiga), but I sense that it's the overall attitude of the members of the communities that are the major differentiator with the Amiga community being a lot more pompous, self-centred and self-righteous (and, conversely, more individual-based and less community-based) than the other two.

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

the megadrive version is almost fully coded in full ASM68K.

Originally Posted by Pyromania

That’s the version that should be ported to AmigaOS.

Aye. That's true. Good luck in getting the source code, though... SEGA won't give it away. The best alternative would be to reverse-engineer it, but that's a mammoth of a task (not to mention illegal as well).

[chb]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

Aye. That's true. Good luck in getting the source code, though... SEGA won't give it away. The best alternative would be to reverse-engineer it, but that's a mammoth of a task (not to mention illegal as well).

The C64 version was actually reverse-engineered and converted from the Master System's Z80 code. Sega seems to be quite relaxed about fan-made conversions without commercial intent.

[NovaCoder]

Seems to run pretty well on my Amiga

640 * 480 @ 60 FPS in VGA

[ Show youtube player ]

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

Aye. That's true. Good luck in getting the source code, though... SEGA won't give it away. The best alternative would be to reverse-engineer it, but that's a mammoth of a task (not to mention illegal as well).

The source code for Sonic has been disassembled, reverse-engineered and meticulously documented a long time ago, as is to be expected of a game with as ardent a fandom as Sonic’s.

[dreadnought]

While quality ports are always impressive from the coding POV, is there really that big a gap in hardware capabilities? I don't really know much about it, but have often heard C64 folks saying that it's better than NES, so wouldn't it also apply to SMS?

[rothers]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

While quality ports are always impressive from the coding POV, is there really that big a gap in hardware capabilities? I don't really know much about it, but have often heard C64 folks saying that it's better than NES, so wouldn't it also apply to SMS?

The SMS is a superior system to the C64, specially in terms of sprite hardware & palette capabilities.

Sonic1 on the SMS does not push the system at all, in fact it might have been on purpose to not rattle the Megadrive version.

The C64 would struggle with something like Sonic Chaos, a later sonic game which used more of the SMS capabilities:

[ Show youtube player ]

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by idrougge

The source code for Sonic has been disassembled, reverse-engineered and meticulously documented a long time ago, as is to be expected of a game with as ardent a fandom as Sonic’s.

I was absolutely unaware of this, though it does make sense. Kudos on the work, to whomever did it, 'cos it must have been quite fastidious. If the source code in 68K ASM is, indeed, available then it's A LOT easier to build an Amiga-specific version. Still a hard task, though, since we'd have to circumvent the hardware-specific aspects of the code (in other words, ditch the MD VDP specific usage and adapt it to OCS, so a lot of trial and error should be expected). As I have stated above, the backdrops seem undoable on an OCS Amiga (maybe they can be done on AGA but not sure), though games like Elfmania and Mr. Nuts - Hoppin' Mad prove that in the hands of a gifted coder and of an apt graphic designer, the tired old OCS can still pack a punch or two.

Even so, I'm still quite sceptic about a proper Amiga version of Sonic the Hedgehog. I just don't see the current Amiga community pulling this off like the C64 one did.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

I was absolutely unaware of this, though it does make sense. Kudos on the work, to whomever did it, 'cos it must have been quite fastidious. If the source code in 68K ASM is, indeed, available then it's A LOT easier to build an Amiga-specific version. Still a hard task, though, since we'd have to circumvent the hardware-specific aspects of the code (in other words, ditch the MD VDP specific usage and adapt it to OCS, so a lot of trial and error should be expected). As I have stated above, the backdrops seem undoable on an OCS Amiga (maybe they can be done on AGA but not sure), though games like Elfmania and Mr. Nuts - Hoppin' Mad prove that in the hands of a gifted coder and of an apt graphic designer, the tired old OCS can still pack a punch or two.

Even so, I'm still quite sceptic about a proper Amiga version of Sonic the Hedgehog. I just don't see the current Amiga community pulling this off like the C64 one did.

Kid Chaos more than proves a decent attempt could be tried on ocs.

There will be compromises, but crucially, nothing that should affect gameplay.

But you're right, its a big endeavour, and its a big task for anyone to contemplate.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

While quality ports are always impressive from the coding POV, is there really that big a gap in hardware capabilities? I don't really know much about it, but have often heard C64 folks saying that it's better than NES, so wouldn't it also apply to SMS?

Interesting, I've never actually thought about the C64 as inherently superior to the 8 bit consoles. When I look at the best NES games vs best C64 games (from a tech perspective) I rather get the reverse feeling. Same with Master System, really.

Now, I do know the C64 can display more Sprite pixels per line than both the NES (8*8 pixels vs 8*24 pixels) and Master System (8*16 pixels vs 8*24 pixels) and I have a massive soft spot for the SID, which I just like the sound of more than the NES/Master System sound chip (personal opinion alert ). On the flip side, both the Master System & NES can display more colours on screen, both also had a faster CPU as well as running all SW directly from cartridge, sometimes with add-on chips. They also had some serious talent working on some of the games, which was not always the case on the C64 side.

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by roondar

Interesting, I've never actually thought about the C64 as inherently superior to the 8 bit consoles. When I look at the best NES games vs best C64 games (from a tech perspective) I rather get the reverse feeling. Same with Master System, really.

Me too, but while I can opine on gameplay, I'm not a tech expert and the arguments I read were regarding the hardware advantages of C64 vs NES. And since it's not something I know much about I can't say they were correct or not (could well be biased since it was on Lemon64 forum

[masteries]

A very good conversion,

I read that the entire game is loaded into RAM, due to this the expansion requirement.

[Bren McGuire]

Amiga world - spends years arguing about how Sonic is not possible on an Amiga, much less a stock A500.

C64 world - LMAO here's Sonic... ah we also got Mario!

if amiga people would stop whining and ranting on boards for a second and actually put hands to work, i can't imagine all the amazing stuff they would accomplish. big ups the C64 scene, always on point.

[rothers]

If it really is a port of the SMS version I wonder if it can run the hacks/mods? You could mod the Megadrive level layout in to it if you wanted to see what it would look like on the C64.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Me too, but while I can opine on gameplay, I'm not a tech expert and the arguments I read were regarding the hardware advantages of C64 vs NES. And since it's not something I know much about I can't say they were correct or not (could well be biased since it was on Lemon64 forum

Ah, I see. Well, they're right about the Sprite hardware - like I said, the C64 can display more Sprite pixels per scanline than the NES. But there's a lot more to a system than just how many Sprite pixels it can display on a line. And this is coming from a genuine C64 fan - I love that thing. Bought my latest game for it a week ago (Soul Force, which -completely off topic- is a great game. One of the best I've played this year across all the platforms I own for sure). And yet, I'd still call the NES the better HW for games overall

[rothers]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Kid Chaos more than proves a decent attempt could be tried on ocs.

There will be compromises, but crucially, nothing that should affect gameplay.

But you're right, its a big endeavour, and its a big task for anyone to contemplate.

Always felt they missed an opportunity to make that game much more colourful by putting the baddies on the back layer, instead they tried to squeeze everything in to 8 colours, and it shows. Totally wasted the other 8 on a background graphic!



If it was done with 8/8 for Sonic you should be able to make a pretty close match to the original. Sonics backgrounds were always minimal.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

Amiga world - spends years arguing about how Sonic is not possible on an Amiga, much less a stock A500.

C64 world - LMAO here's Sonic... ah we also got Mario!

if amiga people would stop whining and ranting on boards for a second and actually put hands to work, i can't imagine all the amazing stuff they would accomplish. big ups the C64 scene, always on point.

That's because us Amiga people would not want to play the inferior Master System version.

Also, since the C64's char matrix is basically a tile engine instead of a bitmap it has certain advantages for these kind of applications.

Plus, I think there is a lot of stuff in development right now, so no idea where you get the 'Amiga people can only whine' from.

[roondar]

On topic, the only choice I find a little bit odd is the choice to go for the much slower PAL music rather than the NTSC music speed. That would've made quite the difference I think.

Also, it's rather cool that someone is using the REU to enhance a C64 game for a change, that rarely happens and is probably a way to get around the speed difference in the CPU's.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Steril707

That's because us Amiga people would not want to play the inferior Master System version.

Some Amiga people have been playing the Master System version on their Amigas for many years now via emulation

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Some Amiga people have been playing the Master System version on their Amigas for many years now via emulation

On a stock A500?