Why are platform games on the Amiga really mediocre?

[seuden]

I really like platform games on the Amiga. One of my faves is Flimbo's Quest.

[pbareges]

i really don't get why so many people seem to agree with the fact that amiga platformers were mediocre compared to console standards...

i totally agree that none of amiga platformers can beat NES/SNES in the mario bros genre...(even if giana sisters is pure fun)

BUT PLATFORMERS ARE NOT MARIO BROS !!

Just to comment about the ones you mentionned :

- Rick Dangerous is totally amazing and the mix of puzzle/precision/arcade is really unique

- Superfrog is the greatest of all..most players that dislike it did not play it to the end..world 1 is only ok, i agree but it is only designed to get familiar with the game...subsequent worlds are awesome and the increase of difficulty through levels is very well balanced

- arabian nights/ Mr nutz / giana sisters / soccer kid / moktar / ruff'n'tumble/turrican/gods/flimbo's quest/killing game show are really good exemples of entertaining platformers with a good mix of puzzles/arcade ...i think the puzzle (linear) dimension of amiga platformers is an amiga specific where most console platformers are more focused on speed/coordination/ real time fun (with hidden secret worlds but only as an option for fanatics). Lost vikings may be another great exemple of this puzzle/arcade mix. putty and putty squad maybe of the almost pure puzzle kind.

- there's also the arcade/aventure platformer type with great titles like shadow of the beast, leander, flimbo's quest

- kid chaos was an ok attempt to replicate sonic on amiga..

there may be a ton of other genres i'm forgetting...but i think that the platformer genre on amiga is much richer than on console because of its several forms.

i won't comment about the up/buttom jump issue as it is pure nonsense.

please play superfrog to the end without trainer (as you seem to have plenty of spare time to compute all kinds of weird ratios) and we'll REALLY TALK about it

PS : add to the list mcdonald land, blues brothers, another world, flashback, bubble bobble, prince of persia, exile in some ways +kg addons rainbow islands and new zealand story...you really have plenty of great titles on amiga!!

[killergorilla]

Whilst I disagree that the Amiga has no great platformers (I personally love Ruff N Tumble, New Zealand Story, Rainbow Islands and Aladdin off the top of my head) I would hardly call the rest mediocre.

I do agree that the Megadrive and SNES had more great platformers, but they also had their share of drivel.

Oh and Superfrog isn't a great game. It's average. I played it up until the end of World 3 and granted, it was entertaining, but it is nowhere near as good as other platformers.

[seuden]

Where most platform games on the Amiga developed by someone in their bedroom while Nintendo and Sega games where developed by big software houses?

[hitchhikr]

Where most platform games on the Amiga developed by someone in their bedroom while Nintendo and Sega games where developed by big software houses?

Not all Amiga games were developed by bedroom coders (although a lot of them were obviously made by people who never heard about fixed point arithmetic ) but not everybody could afford buying license from Nintendo (especially them because they had a nasty business scheme) or Sega so this investment has to bring big cash in return and it did as i remember the in-house Infogrames programmer who made the game 7 colors told me that once they paid him a course on SNES development and moved from Amiga dev to the console his pay check doubled auto-magically, not because Infogrames were a bunch of merry philanthropists but because the sales figures where obviously much higher on consoles.

[Visper]

Well, I prefer european platformers to japanese ones, so keep your Mario/Sonic crap and give me more games like Lionheart/Rick Dangerous/Turrican/Entombed.

[AB Positive]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Turrican on the Sega Mega Drive is similar. The game has of course a jump button, but the coder used the jump mechanics from the Amiga version. It doesn't work.

This is actually the sentiment I was trying to get across.

It's not that amiga doesn't have jump buttons, it's that the design of "Up being jump" or "Having a jump button" has to match the gameplay. If Mario was done the same, but with Up being jump... it'd be awful.

If Turrican has a jump button (see, Megadrive, PC Engine) that doesn't mean it's a better port. Quite the opposite, the game suffered.

However for a pure platform, the 900-lb Gorilla in the room is Mario Bros. and to try and emulate that gameplay while not compensating for changing the jump mechanic leads to... well... not so great gameplay.

It's not that up is jump. It's that the programmers didn't take it into account.

[seuden]

Didn't Amiga generally have only 1 button tho?

[killergorilla]

Yep.

[waal]

Originally Posted by Visper

Well, I prefer european platformers to japanese ones, so keep your Mario/Sonic crap and give me more games like Lionheart/Rick Dangerous/Turrican/Entombed.

Entombed ? Never heard of this game.

I always found Amiga platformers good until I buy a SNES in 1994. At this time, I found better gameplay and this particular japanese design we didn't see often on computers.

Years have passed now and after reviewing a whole collection of Amiga, Snes and Megadrive games, I think the Amiga offers more diversity in style and also not all console plateformers are so good. Actually, there's Nintendo and Sega games and the rest (well, there's also a few companies like Capcom and Konami, nothing but startups ) but we can count the same proportion of crappy games on consoles as on computers. Even if they look sooo Kawai.

The fact is that major japanese companies were totally aware of the importance of playability then they have adopted early in the process a quality insurance policy . Something the europeans didn't budget at all due to financial and cultural matters, I guess.

Finally they filled the gap and they all agree today to produce uninteresting games on nextgen plateforms.

And I find a second button useful only because of the XboX directional pad. I often remap my games on Winuaex. It sounds like a heresy, I know.

Anyway, Amiga is still worth playing...

[Hungry Horace]

to me this just reads like another thread where the main subject matter is based entirely on one personal opinion, which is fine, but it's rather difficult reading at times.

There are Amiga platform games I like, others I do not. Other than that, i think i will keep out of this one

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

to me this just reads like another thread where the main subject matter is based entirely on one personal opinion, which is fine, but it's rather difficult reading at times.

Exactly

[gimbal]

can't say that I agree at all with the OP. I didn't like Superfrog much (repetitive), but it wasn't a terrible game either.

I'd say that of all the genres I played on the Amiga, I played and loved platformers the most, although it is a little gray area what constitutes a platform game. I can think of a big pile of good ones and only of a few bad ones.

Of course also there are the games you really have to spend time with to get to like them; for example Addams Family is great fun... once you get to grips with the HORRIBLE slipping and sliding and you find the secret areas with 30+ lives. Horror Zombies is GREAT fun... once you get to grips with the slightly icky collision detection and the high difficulty level (IMO).

[PowerPie5000]

To be honest i think the fighting games on the Amiga are more "mediocre" than it's platform games I loved all the Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter games on the Snes/Megadrive but i thought the Amiga versions were poor! And other attempts such as Body Blows, Elfmania and Brutal: Paws of Fury were also poor in my opinion (i still have them though ).

The console fighters had more fluid movement, better controls and also in most cases looked better. I don't really have a problem with Amiga platform games as i don't usually play them... but the one's i have are ok but nothing special. I loved the RPG, adventure, action and strategy games on the old Miggy

[TCD]

@PowerPie5000
Yep, beat 'em ups are probably the 'weakest' genre on the Amiga (though IK+ is brilliant ). There I would tend to agree that a missing second (and even more ) firebutton is a big problem.

[Retro-Nerd]

Mortal Kombat Amiga has a second button, that's not the problem imho.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Mortal Kombat Amiga has a second button, that's not the problem imho.

Fair enough

[Visper]

Originally Posted by waal

Entombed ? Never heard of this game.

A PD game for the Atari ST like Rick Dangerous but 500 times harder

Entombed

[rare_j]

Did anyone mention Fire and Ice yet?
Only one of the best platformers ever... and only on Amiga unless I'm mistaken!!

[Graham Humphrey]

Except it was on the Archimedes, ST, PC and Master System according to HOL

Wouldn't surprise me if it was actually an Amiga original though.