Request: New Aga Features, if possible..

sandruzzo · 23 January 2021, 05:45

Is it possible to add to Winuae an options that Allou to cpu to access to chip-ram every possible cicles instead only every cicles?

Toni Wilen · 25 January 2021, 17:54

Why? 68020+ CPU emulation isn't accurate enough anyway so this wouldn't really match what would happen in real world. Even if it existed in real world.

sandruzzo · 25 January 2021, 17:55

I know that real Aga dont have It. It could be interesting to see impact on CPU performances on vanilla aga

rutra80 · 26 January 2021, 09:10

Just throw in some FastRAM and you'll see how it is to have access every cycle. And if you want fast graphics tick Immediate Blitter and/or untick cycle-exact.

sandruzzo · 26 January 2021, 09:13

Thanks for the tips

Toni Wilen · 26 January 2021, 09:39

CPU chipset access always takes 2 DMA cycles. AGA CPU cycle access timing has not changed from OCS/ECS. Unfortunately. Only big difference is that AGA (and A3000) chip ram is 32-bit wide and long aligned 32-bit read or write is as fast as 16-bit read/write.

Writes are slightly faster because after chipset (budgie) has latched the data, CPU is free to continue in next CPU cycle.

sandruzzo · 26 January 2021, 10:36

@Toni Wilen

Thats' why asked if it is possible "to fix" it into winuae, to taste how could have been AGA
with good Chip-Ram access.

Mclane · 26 January 2021, 15:18

I think Toni is more keen on making WinUAE more exact like the real world, adding Frankenstein options is always going to lead to problems and to be honest, who needs people finding issues with the Frankenstein options when you are trying to be exact

sandruzzo · 26 January 2021, 16:27

That why i asked, of possible

Foebane · 26 January 2021, 21:03

Last I heard, emulation of computer systems was about recreating physical hardware in software as it is, not as it could (or should) be. Otherwise, compatibility with real hardware collapses utterly.

Mclane · 26 January 2021, 21:11

Obviously it's Toni's baby and he does what he likes with it but on a selfish point of view, being that it's free and done in his own time I'd love to see the correctness worked on rather than 'what if' type things.

No disrespect sandruzzo, but as its down to Toni, who knows...

sandruzzo · 27 January 2021, 07:50

Mclane · 27 January 2021, 12:29

AJCopland · 28 January 2021, 17:13

I have wondered whether one of the UAE/WinUAE emulators could be used to implement systems that never existed like the post-commodore AA+ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_AA%2B_Chipset) systems.

It'd be pointless, and not something that I'd ask you to do Toni

More of an exercise in what-could-have-been and fantasy.

There's emulators for consoles that never existed or virtual machines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIP-8) so it's not without precedent.

Toni Wilen · 28 January 2021, 18:55

I am still not sure if I want to implement it but if it happens, it will be unsupported config file option that can break any time..

Quote:

never existed

Only if software exists that is (almost) proven to work with that hardware. It is 100% requirement.

Mclane · 29 January 2021, 14:38

I can't imagine there's any real software bar alpha's at best...

23 January 2021, 05:45	#1
sandruzzo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Italy/Rome Posts: 2,304	Request: New Aga Features, if possible.. Is it possible to add to Winuae an options that Allou to cpu to access to chip-ram every possible cicles instead only every cicles?

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25 January 2021, 17:54	#2
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,524	Why? 68020+ CPU emulation isn't accurate enough anyway so this wouldn't really match what would happen in real world. Even if it existed in real world.

25 January 2021, 17:55	#3
sandruzzo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Italy/Rome Posts: 2,304	I know that real Aga dont have It. It could be interesting to see impact on CPU performances on vanilla aga

26 January 2021, 09:10	#4
rutra80 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Poland Posts: 308	Just throw in some FastRAM and you'll see how it is to have access every cycle. And if you want fast graphics tick Immediate Blitter and/or untick cycle-exact.

26 January 2021, 09:13	#5
sandruzzo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Italy/Rome Posts: 2,304	Thanks for the tips

26 January 2021, 09:39	#6
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,524	CPU chipset access always takes 2 DMA cycles. AGA CPU cycle access timing has not changed from OCS/ECS. Unfortunately. Only big difference is that AGA (and A3000) chip ram is 32-bit wide and long aligned 32-bit read or write is as fast as 16-bit read/write. Writes are slightly faster because after chipset (budgie) has latched the data, CPU is free to continue in next CPU cycle.

26 January 2021, 10:36	#7
sandruzzo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Italy/Rome Posts: 2,304	@Toni Wilen Thats' why asked if it is possible "to fix" it into winuae, to taste how could have been AGA with good Chip-Ram access.

26 January 2021, 15:18	#8
Mclane Old retro god. Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Northolt, West London Age: 62 Posts: 857	I think Toni is more keen on making WinUAE more exact like the real world, adding Frankenstein options is always going to lead to problems and to be honest, who needs people finding issues with the Frankenstein options when you are trying to be exact

26 January 2021, 16:27	#9
sandruzzo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Italy/Rome Posts: 2,304	That why i asked, of possible

26 January 2021, 21:03	#10
Foebane Banned Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Cardiff, UK Age: 51 Posts: 2,871	Last I heard, emulation of computer systems was about recreating physical hardware in software as it is, not as it could (or should) be. Otherwise, compatibility with real hardware collapses utterly.

26 January 2021, 21:11	#11
Mclane Old retro god. Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Northolt, West London Age: 62 Posts: 857	Obviously it's Toni's baby and he does what he likes with it but on a selfish point of view, being that it's free and done in his own time I'd love to see the correctness worked on rather than 'what if' type things. No disrespect sandruzzo, but as its down to Toni, who knows...

27 January 2021, 07:50	#12
sandruzzo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Italy/Rome Posts: 2,304

27 January 2021, 12:29	#13
Mclane Old retro god. Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Northolt, West London Age: 62 Posts: 857

28 January 2021, 17:13	#14
AJCopland Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Beeston, Nottinghamshire, UK Posts: 238	I have wondered whether one of the UAE/WinUAE emulators could be used to implement systems that never existed like the post-commodore AA+ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_AA%2B_Chipset) systems. It'd be pointless, and not something that I'd ask you to do Toni More of an exercise in what-could-have-been and fantasy. There's emulators for consoles that never existed or virtual machines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIP-8) so it's not without precedent.

29 January 2021, 14:38	#16
Mclane Old retro god. Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Northolt, West London Age: 62 Posts: 857	I can't imagine there's any real software bar alpha's at best...

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