SX-1 + FMV needs a specific scsi.device ?

[Rochabian]

As you surely know SX-1 can deal with 8Mo of Fastram, but with the FMV module, only 4 are recognized, other adresses are taken by the FMV module.

SX-1 is well known to have problem with 8Mo of Fastram (freeze) but the problem is solved using the scsi.device from OS3.9 BB2 update.

But with SX-1 with FMV, it completely freeze the CD32 when starting a video from workbench using FMV and BB2 scsi.device

I've tested several scsi.device and some are working with the FMV card but are more or less unstable ( random freeze )

For example the Don Adan scsi.device is the most stable for SX-1 with FMV,
the 43.24 patched works too. The Cosmos and Doobrey scsi.device doesn't work.

I've tested with 2 different revisions of SX-1 with same results

I see some artifacts playing a video but the are not at the same timeline between the differents scsi.device tested, so i assume there is still a problem with scsi.device using SX-1 + FMV. Those artifacts are visible in WINUae too.

Could it be possible to have a mix between the scsi.device from BB2 that is stable and the Don Aran one to enable the use of FMV add-on ?

What could be wrong in the BB2 scsi.device to completely freeze the CD32 when the FMV is used, as it works great using 8Mo of Fastram

EDIT : Finally the scsi.device V46.00 works great on SX-1 and i've been able to setup a 128Gb SD Card with PFS3 and use FMV without any freeze
Thanks Don Adam !

[Rochabian]

A little udpade about this
The scsi.device 46.0 from Don Adam is rock stable with a HDD (played MPEG about 3hour from HDD many times without freeze & glitch) BUT it freeze the CD32 if i use SDCard when i play a video from SD. The SD card is a clone of the HDD, exact same setup.

My HDD is a SAMSUNG PATA 40Gb from 2006
My SD Card is a SD Extreme Pro 128Gb with SD2IDE

I was wondering how i can check what are the commands that an HDD can accept?
Is there a tool to check this ? As my HDD is very old i think some commands are ignored and that's perhaps why it's working but not whith the SDCARD

With the SDCard, i can play or launch music during 3 hours without a freeze, but if after i launch a video from HDD, freeze appears in less than 3 minutes.
This doesn't happened with my HDD, launching a video after 3 hours of music works flawlessly

Any idea is welcome ;-)

[Don_Adan]

You can check speed for HD and SD card. SD card can be too slow, too slow transfer.
You can change partition size for SD card, 128 GB can be problem.
You can use/test other SD cards.
You can use A600 version of scsi.device.

[Rochabian]

As my main goal was to use a large drive easily removable to put on PC for file updates, i have thought about SD & CF card first, but SD & CF have problem that for now i can't resolve and don't understand

Too slow transfer can be the cause and i've not tested A600 scsi.device but i'll try for sure

Another way could be to use SATA drive with an adapter ( more easily removable than a 44 pin IDE header and safer )

It's hard to find a compatible drive that works with a SATA to IDE adapter but i'll give it a try too

For now i've tried with at least 3 CF cards of different size with 2 different adapters
Same for SD cards and adapters.

Transfer with CF & SD is about 1,8MB when with HDD it's about 2,8 MB

I use CF & SD cards with SX32 & TF330 without problem, the problem is SX-1 + FMV + SD or CF cards

It could be the MPEG player software that send incompatible commands (buffers ? ) with SD or CF cards too

[Don_Adan]

I dont know, but perhaps not. I suspect that if transfer is too slow then software can freeze, i think. You can check/test other hardware interfaces for yours SD/CD cards.
And if this is transfer problem, you can check other filesystems like FFS, PFS, SFS together with AddBuffers command. Also in HDToolBox you can change MaxTransfer value to bigger. In theory scsi.device v46.0+ has no MaxTransfer limit.

[Rochabian]

Thanks for your advice Don

This SX-1 will drive me nuts

I think the IDE controller is really buggy

I've tried some other hardware on the IDE port without success with the FMV

I've tried 2 other PATA drives with same setup as my working SAMSUNG drive (one 100Go & one 80Go) , they don't go through the workbench screen with the FMV plugged in, hangs after the second reboot and black screen.
Same thing with an mSATA 120 Go and a SATA SSD 120Go with a SATA to IDE adapter.
Notice that all these drives loads fine without the FMV plugged in and works on a SX32 too.
I don't know why only the SAMSUNG PATA 40Gb works fine with FMV. That's weird
I have to try with drive <60Gb to see if there is capacity limit for the IDE controller on the SX-1.
The SAMSUNG PATA 40Gb has nothing special i think, it has an ATA 7 interface, supports PIO mode from 0 to 4, DMA mode to UDMA 5, LBA 28 & 48

Can the RDB have something to do with this ( for example, which type of command the drive can handle and which modes )
I've setup my drives with HDtoolbox & HDInstTools but no change

[Rochabian]

I'll try to resume all of my tests about reading MPEG file from HDD and CD32 freeze that appears randomly while playing the file or even when booting from HDD.

So i play an MPEG file TEST.mpg (VCD compliant) from HDD with plaympeg and it freezes the CD32 randomly. It could be after 30 sec, 2 min or 20min, it 's very random.

If i play the same file burned on a CD from the CD, in Workbench 3.1 with the same program plaympeg, there is no freeze

So the problem is really between HDD & FMV.
FMV works itself great playing VCD or VCD track inside workbench with cdmpeg, no freeze

I've tried with the CD32 rom scsi.device 40.40 with a partition below 2Gb, it freeze
Then i've tried SD card, CF card, IDE drive, msata drive, SATA drive & SSD drive and it freezes too
Then i've tried with all filesystems (SFS, SFS2, FFS 46, PFSAIO, PDS) and Maxtransfer value (1FE00, FE00, FFFFFF) and block values when possible, same behaviour, it freezes randomly. Adding buffers doesn't change anything
I've tried with 2 differents SX-1, one rev 2 and one rev 3, same
I've tried with 2 differents CD32 model, Rev 3.1 & 4.1, same
I've tried with 4 different 4Mo memory module, same

Then i've tried with all scsi.device that i've found and that's where i've found different results

For example i'll take the Cosmos 43.46 beta scsi.device

scsi.device 43.46 beta 8, beta 2 :
Ultra stable but freeze cd32 when i play the file from hdd; when it access to the FMV module
scsi.device 43.46 beta 7, beta 6 :
Workbench screen appears but freeze before workbench icons shows up
scsi.device 43.46 beta 5 , beta 3, beta 1:
No workbench at all, freeze before loading workbench
scsi.device 43.46 beta 4:
Works with FMV with random freeze whenever there is a filesystem error (problem known with this version)

I don't know how some minor changes between versions allow or not the use of HDD & FMV.

I've tried the scsi.device from 3.1.4 too and it freeze the CD32 when i try to access the FMV

To resume there is no SCSI.device stable for playing mpeg file from HDD
I don't know if it's a memory conflict or a timing problem.
It doesn't seems to happen with Promodule, nujack, has tested it

EDIT: A note about emulation in WinUAE :

For the scsi.device that freeze the console when we access the FMV with real hardware ( for example the 43.46 or 43.45 from BB2), the freeze appears in Winuae too
For the scsi.device that boot but locks on Workbench screen with real hardware (43.46b2,b7), workbench is well loaded on WinUAE but freeze when we access the FMV
For the scsi.device that boots normally but do random freeze with real hardware (46 Don Adam), we can access FMV, play file and no random freeze at all in WinUAE

Does someone has the same setup, SX1 + FMV to test if it could be a faulty hardware or
to confirm the problem with scsi.device ?

[Retro1234]

Probably stupid idea but what if you mount ISO and play mpeg or Play Mpeg from Ram: ?

[Rochabian]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

Probably stupid idea but what if you mount ISO and play mpeg or Play Mpeg from Ram: ?

How can i mount an iso file in 3.1?
What tool can do this ?
Do you mean copy plaympeg to RAM: and launch it from RAM: ?

[Retro1234]

There are a lot of tools to mount ISOs on Aminet - DiskImageGui?

But actually copying an Mpeg to RAM and playing is probably one of the most effective tests.

[Rochabian]

I could try to play a mpeg file from RAM but as i ave only 4Mo available it will be a short video so the problem will be more difficult to detect. I will launch it multiple times to see if problem occurs.
I'll try to plug my SD card to the external DH0 port too, as i 've seen somewhere that there is less problem with the external HDD port.

[Retro1234]

Yeah 4mb will be tricky.

If the Mpeg plays ok from RAM but not Harddrive it might help narrow down where the problem lies.

[Rochabian]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

Yeah 4mb will be tricky.

If the Mpeg plays ok from RAM but not Harddrive it might help narrow down where the problem lies.

A reminder about SX-1 + FMV :

SX-1 allow the use of one 8Mo SIMM of FastRam (2 bank of 4Mo), but when FMV is attached, it only shows 1 bank (4 Mo) of fastram because the other bank adress is taken by the FMV module.

So further tests following your advices with FMV Module :

With scsi.device 43.46B8 or 43.45 from BB2 (the most stable versions with 8Mo of Fast but hangs CD32 when tring to access FMV module, some other versions of scsi.device freeze the CD32 with 8Mo randomly)

Plaympeg in RAM & Mpeg file from CD -> freeze at video start
Plaympeg in RAM & Mpeg file from DH0 -> freeze at video start
Plaympeg in RAM & Mpeg file in RAM -> freeze at video start
Plaympeg in DH0 & Mpeg file in RAM -> freeze at video start
Plaympeg in DH0 & Mpeg file from DH0 -> freeze at video start
Plaympeg in DH0 et Mpeg file on CD -> freeze at video start

So no matter what, these versions hangs the FMV

With scsi.device 46 from Don Adam (one of the rare versions that allow the use of FMV within Workbench)

Plaympeg in RAM & Mpeg file from CD ->Ok no freeze after one hour
Plaympeg in RAM & Mpeg file from DH0 -> freeze after 5 min or random
Plaympeg in RAM & Mpeg file in RAM -> Ok no freeze (video of 15s launched 10 times)
Plaympeg in DH0 & Mpeg file from DH0 -> freeze after 15min or random
Plaympeg in DH0 et Mpeg file on CD -> Ok no freeze after one hour

So my interpretation is ( it's only my opinion, it needs debugging to see exactly what's wrong but i have not enough docs about FMV memory access) :

As this use of the FMV what surely not foreseen (playing Mpeg file from HDD or CD (not VCD), most of the scsi.device talks with the FMV adresses as if it was memory. I think that's why it hangs.
Or perhaps the second memory bank adress should be accessed in a different way and that's why some scsi.device hangs with 8Mo too ( the 2nd 4Mo bank take the adresses of the FMV )

For the 46.0 from Don Adam, i don't know exactly what are the changes that allow the use of FMV but it works, it's unstable but it works most of the time

What exactly is the relationship between scsi.device and cd32mpeg.device ?
Does scsi.device set some adresses or timings that are not compatible with FMV or the second bank of RAM ?
Can the cd32mpeg.device be bugged ?
Why for example the Cosmos 46.46 beta 4 works with FMV but not the beta 5 nor the beta 3 as there is minor changes between versions?
That's the mystery....

[alexh]

If you are suggesting that any of this behaviour can be reproduced in WinUAE when emulating CD32+FMV+IDE HDD then there is a chance that Toni will be able to diagnose it. You'd have to explain to him you thought it was a software bug and give him exact steps to reproduce. It might be interrupts?

[Rochabian]

Originally Posted by alexh

If you are suggesting that any of this behaviour can be reproduced in WinUAE when emulating CD32+FMV+IDE HDD then there is a chance that Toni will be able to diagnose it. You'd have to explain to him you thought it was a software bug and give him exact steps to reproduce. It might be interrupts?

As we don't have the SX-1 firmware, it's difficult to reproduce the real hardware.

How can i add a real IDE, to not use uaehf.device, on CD32 config in Winuae ?

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by Rochabian

As we don't have the SX-1 firmware, it's difficult to reproduce the real hardware.

How can i add a real IDE, to not use uaehf.device, on CD32 config in Winuae ?

Adv. Chipset. -> Untick "compatible settings" -> Tick "A600/A1200 IDE"

CD & Hard drives -> Add hardfile -> HD Controller -> "Commodore A600/A1200/A4000 IDE". Add hardfile normally, must be Full drive/RDB mode drive. (partitioned HDF)

(also make sure no other uaehf.device hardfiles are enabled or other UAE devices. You can also disable ROM -> UAE boot ROM to guarantee no UAE devices are active)

[Rochabian]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Adv. Chipset. -> Untick "compatible settings" -> Tick "A600/A1200 IDE"

CD & Hard drives -> Add hardfile -> HD Controller -> "Commodore A600/A1200/A4000 IDE". Add hardfile normally, must be Full drive/RDB mode drive. (partitioned HDF)

(also make sure no other uaehf.device hardfiles are enabled or other UAE devices. You can also disable ROM -> UAE boot ROM to guarantee no UAE devices are active)

Thanks Toni, i was able to test with my ide drive with your settings

Unfortunately, i can't reproduce the total freeze with scsi.device 43.45 nor the random freeze with scsi.device 46.0 In WinUAE
All versions of scsi.device are working in WinUAE, even the original ROM version 40.40 , allowing the use of FMV within Workbench
I assume it's using "Gayle" when you set the A600/A1200/A4000 IDE Controller, but SX-1 doesn't use Gayle chip for IDE controller i think so it's hard to replicate the problem in emulation

[Rochabian]

When trying to reproduce the SX-1 config in WinUAE, i've seen that the FastRAM is adressed from 00600000 to 009FFFFFF on real hardware, not from 40000000, as in auto setting in WinUAE

So i've set manual config for the Z3 RAM with adress range 00600000 to 009FFFFF to test but then WinUAE hangs at start with HALT7 stop code

Could it be a problem with FastRAM that is non standard on SX-1 or is this normal ?

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by Rochabian

I assume it's using "Gayle" when you set the A600/A1200/A4000 IDE Controller, but SX-1 doesn't use Gayle chip for IDE controller i think so it's hard to replicate the problem in emulation

SX-1 (and many others) emulate Gayle interface. Technically it should work identically but it is possible it isn't perfect. Impossible to know without original design documents which surely don't exist anymore.

Originally Posted by Rochabian

When trying to reproduce the SX-1 config in WinUAE, i've seen that the FastRAM is adressed from 00600000 to 009FFFFFF on real hardware, not from 40000000, as in auto setting in WinUAE

So i've set manual config for the Z3 RAM with adress range 00600000 to 009FFFFF to test but then WinUAE hangs at start with HALT7 stop code

Could it be a problem with FastRAM that is non standard on SX-1 or is this normal ?

Use Z2 RAM and you should get matching setup. If RAM appears before FMV, use Hardware info panel to reorder FMV before Z2 RAM.

[alexh]

The SX32 (non-pro) definitely emulates Gayle IDE registers which is why it works without it's own driver and I'm sure SX-1 is the same.