Vampire discourse, keep it civil (was: Vampire 1200 V2 waiting times)

[fitzsteve]

I never did get a V2, maybe I'll pick one up used eventually. Given how long I was on the waiting list for I'm surprised I didn't get an offer of a V4. There's one on Amibay at the moment with the usual scalper mark up (1100 euros I think) I did see an announcement on Discord that they're expecting more in October.

[UberFreak]

I got my V1200 a few months before it was discontinued, and sold it quickly in anticipation of the V4 based Icedrake.
The price jump changed my mind (150 Euros more than the V1200).
How a BOM of around 100Euro turn into 600Euro?

Btw, as I understood from Igor's mail, he will only support V2 cards but will not produce any more.

[Leon Besson]

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

I never did get a V2, maybe I'll pick one up used eventually. Given how long I was on the waiting list for I'm surprised I didn't get an offer of a V4. There's one on Amibay at the moment with the usual scalper mark up (1100 euros I think) I did see an announcement on Discord that they're expecting more in October.

I was on the waiting list too for the A1200 V2, then I got a email after a few months telling me that V2 no longer being made and could be put in the list for the A500/2000 offering instead

Managed to pickup some reasonably priced V2 1200’s off EBay.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by UberFreak

I got my V1200 a few months before it was discontinued, and sold it quickly in anticipation of the V4 based Icedrake.
The price jump changed my mind (150 Euros more than the V1200).
How a BOM of around 100Euro turn into 600Euro?

Btw, as I understood from Igor's mail, he will only support V2 cards but will not produce any more.

The Hardware is not considered copyrighted on PCB, after all, ram needs to be connected to specific items etc. With HW in hand you can always populate them with a core that you created for the neglected V2 a500/a600 boards

[Tigerskunk]

That whole affair doesn't really look good on the Apollo crew, tbh.

Anyway, I am happy with my V1200, and am glad I don't have a need for one of these newer designs with the funny fantasy names.

[Promilus]

Originally Posted by UberFreak

How a BOM of around 100Euro turn into 600Euro?

Supply chain, assembly cost, machine investment, distribution channels, FPGA IP and other IP like kickstart. It ain't charity you know. And while Igor's dream was to make affordable FPGA based accelerator it isn't really the same idea behind Apollo products nowadays. And full AC68080 won't fit any small and affordable FPGAs nowadays.

[grond]

Originally Posted by lmimmfn

That is not what his doc states, it says 50euro per core paid, 50 euro for apollo shop, about 100 euro BOM plus soldering per card, 30euro for Igor and cash spread elsewhere.
So I don't really understand what you're saying as it completely contradicts Igors statement and anything Gunnar says in terms of trust, I would flush down the toilet, even that may be too kind.

Well, what's there not to understand? The PDF is the unacceptable offer Igor writes about and wants to illustrate by sending it out. The original deal was 20€ per card for the core, everything else for Igor (who, btw, designed the FPGA board with quite a bit of help from Chris, a close friend of Gunnar's and an Apollo Team member).

[S0ulA55a551n]

I also had the email, bought a V2 A1200 and then support dried up more or less straight away.

Lots of weird behaviour, but what with work and moving house and the world not had Chace to really sit down and work through them.

However I was pretty pissed off with the Apollo teams attitude to us V2 users, it was very much a touch shit situation.

Anyone who questioned t=treatment of V2 card owners was not treated well. Gunar is not a person who should be dealing with customers and offering support. He is well too abrasive and thin skinned.

Wont be buying any more of their products. I have a V2 A500 that doesnt work properly too.

[chucsmom69]

I totally agree i find bigguns business skills lacking! I refused to buy again after my apollo firebird still dosnt do half the listed features such as turbo mode and 12mb chip ram! I got shafted with my v2 1200 model much the same... as in i purchased it and not 8months later its been dropped in favour of the icedrake which at current prices is close to 600 euro! Total rip off for something that dosnt do half the things its sold as doing! Oh and us v2 ownera are still sore at no native/aga over hdmi!

[wiz12]

More bad news for some V2 users:

http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=1&note=38690

[grond]

Originally Posted by grond

Well, what's there not to understand? The PDF is the unacceptable offer Igor writes about and wants to illustrate by sending it out. The original deal was 20€ per card for the core, everything else for Igor (who, btw, designed the FPGA board with quite a bit of help from Chris, a close friend of Gunnar's and an Apollo Team member).

Ok, sorry, I should feel embarrassed. I had only briefly looked at the pdf and then only at the table at the start of it. That seems to be the proposal from Gunnar and Miri for distributing the revenue resulting from V2 sales. The rest of it seems to be Igor's lengthy explanation as to why that offer is unacceptable to him. I will have to read it when I'm not on the phone.

[dreadnought]

Another Vampire-related dumpster fire. I usually try to not judge hardware by its makers' behaviour - otherwise I'd probably have to stick to pen & paper based entertainment - but am kinda glad I never felt the need to delve into the high-end Amiga zones. Even if Apollo Team's products might be good technically, their bad behaviour rep leaves sour taste nonetheless.

[lmimmfn]

Originally Posted by wiz12

More bad news for some V2 users:

http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=1&note=38690

More terrible support from apollo, first kippers cards became "illegal" now some of Igors cards are "illegal"

Honestly have to say what a total shit half assed run "company"

[lmimmfn]

Originally Posted by grond

Ok, sorry, I should feel embarrassed. I had only briefly looked at the pdf and then only at the table at the start of it. That seems to be the proposal from Gunnar and Miri for distributing the revenue resulting from V2 sales. The rest of it seems to be Igor's lengthy explanation as to why that offer is unacceptable to him. I will have to read it when I'm not on the phone.

It's fine, I didn't want to drag it out further but Igors figures look completely acceptable and from what I can take Miri was pissed that Igor was forwarding cards to resellers(which I'm sure was a legacy thing) without going through her shop which was taking a fixed rate per card sold.
Her language wasn't great/respectful either tbh.

[lmimmfn]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Another Vampire-related dumpster fire. I usually try to not judge hardware by its makers' behaviour - otherwise I'd probably have to stick to pen & paper based entertainment - but am kinda glad I never felt the need to delve into the high-end Amiga zones. Even if Apollo Team's products might be good technically, their bad behaviour rep leaves sour taste nonetheless.

Gunnar is a very smart guy tech wise but he is the absolute worst person to be the front facing person for an organisation, as said above very thin skinned, ban hammer is weilded at the first sign of confrontation with him and he really is not a people person so he is not doing himself or his organisation any favours.

[Chucky]

2nd time customers randomly can be victims of the terrible terrible coordinated "company" apollo..

I am very happy that I understood quite early that it was best to avoid anything "vampire"
(even if I do have one. apparently one of the first batches of "illegal" cards..)

if I would be a reseller I would not dare to keep vampires in my stock. as you never know when the next internal issue hits and your stock suddenly is "illegal"

[Leon Besson]

Originally Posted by wiz12

More bad news for some V2 users:

http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=1&note=38690

Oh great! What about those who bought 2nd hand off EBay sellers?

[wiz12]

Originally Posted by Leon Besson

Oh great! What about those who bought 2nd hand off EBay sellers?

Probably illegal unless they were bought directly from Igor before all this nonsense happened.

It makes me wonder if resellers like Amigastore are now considered ""Illegal" too.

[lmimmfn]

I absolutely love this:
"2. For customers who bought the V2 in the last year:
==> Please get in touch with your Reseller to check if it is licensed and find a solution for this problem."
WTF have resellers to do with their internal problems?, I.e. for customers who have one of these cards you WILL be given the run around, good luck!!!!

Lovely "company"

[Chucky]

I hope this is FINALLY a thing that makes people understand that it is better to avoid the vampires.. told that for ages. and they have now TWICE shown that they are ready to throw out customers due to internal issues. and let their resellers handle the issues..