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Old 09 February 2020, 19:20   #1
CD32Freak
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Big grin Amiga 4000D Rev B gerber files

I've converted the Amiga 4000D RevB SVG data from amigapcb.org into gerber files:
I have removed this link and after discussing with CD32Freak - BippyM




Feedback is welcome

Last edited by BippyM; 31 July 2020 at 19:30.
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Old 09 February 2020, 19:53   #2
Mick
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The more choice the better as far as I'm concerned, now do the rest (A500 rev 8a, a600, a1200 1d).

Is it possible to import these into any kind of software and modify them?
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Old 09 February 2020, 20:54   #3
jbilander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Is it possible to import these into any kind of software and modify them?

KiCad GerbView can export to kicad_pcb, but the result might be useless?

In Eagle: File->Import->Gerber included from v7.5 and KiCad can import from Eagle but again I don't know how useful the result becomes. Try it

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Old 09 February 2020, 21:37   #4
Mick
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I tried importing it to Kicad and it's not very good (Kicad conversion that is), you can examine traces but without footprints the pads are all shown as vias, it could be useful for me to get accurate dimensions though...

CD32Freak you posted wrong link btw, 4000T was yesterday.
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Old 09 February 2020, 23:33   #5
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Can you do the A600 next please CD32Freak? it's going to be very useful to me at least for getting exact measurements for the board outline and connectors. The gold finger connectors are already spot on as I used data sheets for those.
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Old 10 February 2020, 08:23   #6
CD32Freak
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Thanks for noticing the wrong link

Yes, I will do the A600 Rev 2A next

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Can you do the A600 next please CD32Freak? it's going to be very useful to me at least for getting exact measurements for the board outline and connectors. The gold finger connectors are already spot on as I used data sheets for those.
I use Sprint-Layout to import the Gerber files. If Chucky can make a whole new A1200 board with it, it must good for something and it only costs 50 Euro's:
https://www.electronic-software-shop...ml?language=en

Last edited by CD32Freak; 10 February 2020 at 08:30.
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Old 10 February 2020, 08:43   #7
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Your project is cool, BUT...

I assume the guy that put the data there on amigapcb.org either has gerbers or could quite easily generate them from the data he has. All the information is there to do so.

I also assume he hasn't released gerbers for a reason.

I really don't want such an invaluable resource as amigapcb.org to dissappear because someone felt the data they worked hard to provide for free is being used in a way they did not intend.

I know it's a tricky one because really some Amiga corporate entity owns the rights to the data and thankfully noone seems keen on enforcing that ownership right.

But could you please clarify if you asked them about your project first? I would feel better if you did
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Old 10 February 2020, 10:18   #8
CD32Freak
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Well, many months ago I mailed the owner of amigapcb.org to ask the simple question if he created the layers with the original Commodore gerber files, but he didn't answer So, I started to investigate how I how could convert it to gerber myself

Talking about copyright, I didn't copy any original circuit designs. I've only converted the SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics) at amigapcb.org into gerber files. Here is an interesting ruling by The Intellectual Property Court: Copyright Infringement of Circuit Layouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalek View Post
Your project is cool, BUT...

I assume the guy that put the data there on amigapcb.org either has gerbers or could quite easily generate them from the data he has. All the information is there to do so.

I also assume he hasn't released gerbers for a reason.

I really don't want such an invaluable resource as amigapcb.org to dissappear because someone felt the data they worked hard to provide for free is being used in a way they did not intend.

I know it's a tricky one because really some Amiga corporate entity owns the rights to the data and thankfully noone seems keen on enforcing that ownership right.

But could you please clarify if you asked them about your project first? I would feel better if you did

Last edited by CD32Freak; 10 February 2020 at 10:26.
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Old 10 February 2020, 13:06   #9
alexh
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Where did the schematics from amigapcb.org come from? Are they the original CBM files or reverse engineered?

I don't suppose anyone has the A4000D-CR (RevD) layout? I guess for what I need the A4000+ schematics might be enough.
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Old 10 February 2020, 18:47   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalek View Post
I really don't want such an invaluable resource as amigapcb.org to dissappear because someone felt the data they worked hard to provide for free is being used in a way they did not intend.

No worries. I expected that someone would do this and I didn't want to waste time on any countermeasures. During development of the amigapcb.org site, I wrote an Eagle exporter for verification purposes, unfortunatley it's broken now with the latest database changes. However, If you want an editable version of the A4000 board, this might be a good starting point: https://gitlab.com/scratje/a4000.

Personally, I wouldn't rely on the gerbers created from the SVG data without extensive verification. The SVG renderer at amigapcb.org still has a few issues and the SVG has been optimised for displaying and not for manufacturing. One should at least check the size of the pads, vias and holes before passing the data to a PCB manufacturer.

@CD32Freak: I remember your E-Mail and I remember that I replied, maybe my webhoster got blacklisted again and my message went to the bit bucket somewhere. Please share the code of your converter if possible, I'd love to take a look at it
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Old 10 February 2020, 19:45   #11
CD32Freak
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Yes, I did send you a message, but nevermind
Did you got hold of the original Commodore Gerber files? If so, how?

The converter I used is called FAB3000 by Numerical Innovations. It took a while to discover how you cleverly 'protected' the SVG data, but I'm very analytical and eventually I figured it out

Simply put, the conversion involves a few steps:
1. Save full webpage with Google Chrome.
2. Cleaning up the HTML.
3. Print as PDF with Chrome after figuring out the scale factor...psst, 48%
4. Import PDF in FAB3000.
5. Export as Gerber

Last edited by CD32Freak; 11 February 2020 at 07:18.
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Old 10 February 2020, 20:37   #12
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This is also mostly unnecessary since we already crowdfunded the professional reverse-engineering of the A4000 board, which is available here:

https://github.com/Acill/A4000RevB

These boards were produced and tested (in fact I built one myself) and they work fine.
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Old 10 February 2020, 22:48   #13
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@Scrat

Have you been working with the same Mentor Graphics source data that Micha @ Amiga Wiki has been using?

@thread
The original schematics, in Mentor format have been around for years, I saw a few files 7 years ago. I tried reading some of them with a later varaint of the schematic/PCB tools but to no avail. Mentor Graphics schematic/PCB tool compatibility between toolsets is nearly non-existent so the original Amiga designs, designed on I think it was Personal Architect, on an Apollo Workstation could not be read by the later Design Architect on a Sun Workstation/PC
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Old 11 February 2020, 00:42   #14
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@Stedy the github files linked above are not the original commodore files but created by reverse-engineering an A4000 pcb by a California company for which we raised approx $5000.
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Old 11 February 2020, 15:17   #15
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Nice @cd32freak Specially for the A600 ones!. I remember Chris from amigapcb.org share the eagle files of the A4000 converted from the amigapcb svg dump just for testing purposes.
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Old 14 February 2020, 22:43   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stedy View Post
@Scrat

@thread
The original schematics, in Mentor format have been around for years, I saw a few files 7 years ago. I tried reading some of them with a later varaint of the schematic/PCB tools but to no avail. Mentor Graphics schematic/PCB tool compatibility between toolsets is nearly non-existent so the original Amiga designs, designed on I think it was Personal Architect, on an Apollo Workstation could not be read by the later Design Architect on a Sun Workstation/PC

Where have you seen the original schematic files? I have looked around for years for these, as a curiosity. Are they still around?
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Old 14 February 2020, 23:01   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CD32Freak View Post
Yes, I did send you a message, but nevermind
Did you got hold of the original Commodore Gerber files? If so, how?

The converter I used is called FAB3000 by Numerical Innovations. It took a while to discover how you cleverly 'protected' the SVG data, but I'm very analytical and eventually I figured it out

Simply put, the conversion involves a few steps:
1. Save full webpage with Google Chrome.
2. Cleaning up the HTML.
3. Print as PDF with Chrome after figuring out the scale factor...psst, 48%
4. Import PDF in FAB3000.
5. Export as Gerber

Hi CD32Freak,

Good work, I also re-generated the A600 PCB using the data on AmigaPCB.org during my Christmas holidays to see if it 'was possible'. I used a slightly different technique which does not involve FAB3000. During step 3 I went from SVG directly to my PCB ECAD native format (Altium) .

Personally I didn't want to release it, for a few reasons, including that I wanted to respect the original intent of AmigaPCB.org, but it seems they do not mind!

(I have some other concerns with wide release of these files, but that is my personal opinion, and not for this thread).

I don't think that there is any 'protection' in the SVG data?? It was obvious that the data came from the original Commodore Gerber files when I analysed it, it has all the 'hallmarks' of this. I couldn't see anything unusual?

Your scaling factor is the same as what I found it to be, thanks for the confirmation

Do you think that the A600 Rev 2A might have some sort of design issue? I notice that Commodore never released this board revision to the public.

Last edited by rvctech; 14 February 2020 at 23:22.
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Old 02 May 2020, 16:28   #18
RetroPanic
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Hi does anybody know where c188 + a4000rev.b Trace go, mine is defect and i have to find out.
Don't know how to use Gerber and pcbExplorer seems not working:-(

Last edited by RetroPanic; 02 May 2020 at 16:28. Reason: add
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Old 02 May 2020, 16:53   #19
RetroPanic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CD32Freak View Post
I've converted the Amiga 4000D RevB SVG data from amigapcb.org into gerber files:
https://github.com/cd32freak/Amiga-4000D-Rev-B




Feedback is welcome
Try to find out where traces from C188 go, my Pads are gone! PCBExplorer is not working and with gerber i am not realy experienced:-) SAD.
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Old 02 May 2020, 22:10   #20
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It connects to ground and vcc I think looking at schematics.
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