Amiga Games at 50 fps - Page 17

vulture · 05 October 2020, 01:21

Since you're using winuae, you could scale games to fill your screen and save each config individually

Luca underdog · 05 October 2020, 08:22

i dont wont to use filter and...I already use the individual config for al my games in winuae with frontend

roondar · 05 October 2020, 10:49

The main problem with Amiga & fullscreen games (apart from coders electing to make the screen smaller for performance reasons or PAL developers simply sticking to what fits for NTSC screens) has more to do with the size of the actual pixels and not so much the resolution of the screen.

Unlike many other systems on the market at the time, the Amiga uses pixels that are the "correct" size for PAL/NTSC (meaning the aspect ratio of it's pixels as shown on the screen is actually 4:3 for lowres non-interlaced/hires interlaced). Further, the HRM specifies a standard screen size that is on the low end of what is commonly recommended for analogue TV signals. This later step was probably done because quite a few older TV's (and even some monitors) on the market cut of fairly large chunks of what we know as overscan*.

The consequence is that the standard resolutions (320x200 for NTSC/320x256 for PAL) don't fill the screen on most monitors and certainly not when used on modern screens where things such as overscan have long since forgotten. Arcade & console games often don't really have higher resolutions per se**, they just have slightly stretched pixel sizes that aren't quite the size that is "correct" for PAL/NTSC (meaning their pixels as shown on screen are not quite 4:3).

As others have pointed out, you can actually achieve the same on the Amiga by manually stretching the display - but doing so needs to be done on a game by game basis and will cause issues with the aspect ratio being distorted.

*) as strange as it might seem to us now, the common thought back then apparently was that it was better to have a border and see all the text/graphics than to have the possibility of missing pixels. I think this is why most 8-bit systems, the PC and most computer oriented 16-bit systems tended to not quite fill the entire screen by default.

**) many arcade games run at 256x224 - the Mega Drive's 320 pixel wide display covers nearly 720 pixels if you convert it to DVD, the SNES uses 256x224 for many games and is widely known for it's "fat pixels", etc.

Luca underdog · 05 October 2020, 21:32

I understand what you mean, I use a classic cabinet to play old games ...

vulture · 19 September 2022, 23:10

Small update to the list after a long time. Added Apache (Team 17) to mixed fps and Pegasus to full 50 fps.

ImmortalA1000 · 26 September 2022, 00:46

Lotus does something every frame when you do frame advance on VLC but I can't remember if the WinUAE capture was 50fps or not lol.

Controller input on Lotus II feels 50fps.

lmimmfn · 26 September 2022, 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImmortalA1000

Lotus does something every frame when you do frame advance on VLC but I can't remember if the WinUAE capture was 50fps or not lol.

Controller input on Lotus II feels 50fps.

Games can have 50FPS input but screen redraw of 25FPS this is probably what lotus does. Its a good trick to reduce lag.

vulture · 26 September 2022, 11:23

Well, I willingly avoided listing any racing games, I'm not sure their frame rate can be quantified by the same standards as typical scrollers.

ImmortalA1000 · 29 September 2022, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmimmfn

Games can have 50FPS input but screen redraw of 25FPS this is probably what lotus does. Its a good trick to reduce lag.

Like I said I can't remember when I recorded the video, I don't have the file. It may update half the roadside objects on one frame and the others on the next frame and be 50 fps but either way all the objects move position whatever speed it is running at.

Can't test it now, Windows 2020 cockup of a massive update combined with a newer version of the Camtasia and therefore Techsmith capture codecs (which you can't use within WinUAE or any other package now unlike older versions) borked my Amiga video capture abilities. Really annoying actually, no Amiga reviews for my channel until I unpacked my actual Amiga 1000 lol

kamelito · 29 September 2022, 17:31

IIRC Vroom is at 50fps when running on an A1200

jotd · 29 September 2022, 19:12

problem is: Vroom is running too fast and is unplayable. I got a mantis report about that.

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05 October 2020, 01:21	#321
vulture Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Athens , Greece Posts: 1,840	Since you're using winuae, you could scale games to fill your screen and save each config individually

05 October 2020, 08:22	#322
Luca underdog Registered User Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Italy Posts: 83	i dont wont to use filter and...I already use the individual config for al my games in winuae with frontend

05 October 2020, 10:49	#323
roondar Registered User Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,410	The main problem with Amiga & fullscreen games (apart from coders electing to make the screen smaller for performance reasons or PAL developers simply sticking to what fits for NTSC screens) has more to do with the size of the actual pixels and not so much the resolution of the screen. Unlike many other systems on the market at the time, the Amiga uses pixels that are the "correct" size for PAL/NTSC (meaning the aspect ratio of it's pixels as shown on the screen is actually 4:3 for lowres non-interlaced/hires interlaced). Further, the HRM specifies a standard screen size that is on the low end of what is commonly recommended for analogue TV signals. This later step was probably done because quite a few older TV's (and even some monitors) on the market cut of fairly large chunks of what we know as overscan. The consequence is that the standard resolutions (320x200 for NTSC/320x256 for PAL) don't fill the screen on most monitors and certainly not when used on modern screens where things such as overscan have long since forgotten. Arcade & console games often don't really have higher resolutions per se, they just have slightly stretched pixel sizes that aren't quite the size that is "correct" for PAL/NTSC (meaning their pixels as shown on screen are not quite 4:3). As others have pointed out, you can actually achieve the same on the Amiga by manually stretching the display - but doing so needs to be done on a game by game basis and will cause issues with the aspect ratio being distorted. ) as strange as it might seem to us now, the common thought back then apparently was that it was better to have a border and see all the text/graphics than to have the possibility of missing pixels. I think this is why most 8-bit systems, the PC and most computer oriented 16-bit systems tended to not quite fill the entire screen by default. **) many arcade games run at 256x224 - the Mega Drive's 320 pixel wide display covers nearly 720 pixels if you convert it to DVD, the SNES uses 256x224 for many games and is widely known for it's "fat pixels", etc.

05 October 2020, 21:32	#324
Luca underdog Registered User Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Italy Posts: 83	I understand what you mean, I use a classic cabinet to play old games ...

19 September 2022, 23:10	#325
vulture Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Athens , Greece Posts: 1,840	Small update to the list after a long time. Added Apache (Team 17) to mixed fps and Pegasus to full 50 fps.

26 September 2022, 00:46	#326
ImmortalA1000 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: london/england Posts: 1,347	Lotus does something every frame when you do frame advance on VLC but I can't remember if the WinUAE capture was 50fps or not lol. Controller input on Lotus II feels 50fps.

26 September 2022, 11:23	#328
vulture Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Athens , Greece Posts: 1,840	Well, I willingly avoided listing any racing games, I'm not sure their frame rate can be quantified by the same standards as typical scrollers.

29 September 2022, 17:31	#330
kamelito Zone Friend Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 1,801	IIRC Vroom is at 50fps when running on an A1200

29 September 2022, 19:12	#331
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,164	problem is: Vroom is running too fast and is unplayable. I got a mantis report about that.

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