01 October 2022, 09:49 | #21 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 50
Posts: 2,953
|
Quote:
Several things contributed. Technical: Manufacturing issues early on prevented them to produce meaningful quantities for a launch. They needed som quantities well before Christmas. Management: There was already a conflict within Atari regarding their future path. Some already shifted focus on the Jaguar. Marketing was also affected + the low availability didnt help. Market something no one can buy yet. Software: MultiTOS wasnt available at launch. Devs got the machines late, so no nice library of exclusive launch titles. Price: It was expensive. Maybe not objectively, but what matters is what the consumers perceives. And when you factor in Atari’s poor marketing and availability of new software, the masses arent going to pay that sort of money. Probably the musicians did, but not not the average joe who took a wait and see approach, and those who waited saw Atari distance themselves more and more from the computer business, going all in on the Jaguar. |
|
01 October 2022, 11:34 | #22 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 2,295
|
Quote:
The Bank of England could no longer maintain the previous exchange rate to currencies like D-Mark and subsequently US-Dollar, but had to devalue the Pound. From almost $2 per Pound down to $1.5 in one day ... meaning selling the Falcon at a reasonable price for Christmas 92 in UK would be selling at a loss. But this does not explain the stop/delay in the German market (or other European countries) Looks like someone at Atari was panicking and pushed the red button. |
|
01 October 2022, 11:49 | #23 |
Going nowhere
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 50
Posts: 8,997
|
Even though the Falcon was objectively more powerful than an Amiga A1200, it wasn't apparent to the average home computer buyer.
I think if early software for the Falcon really used the DSP to show what it could do, then it would have presented a viable "this is why the Falcon is more expensive". To the average buyer, they didn't see the benefits of the extra hardware, and simply saw that the Amiga A1200 was being instantly supported by all the major software publishers, was cheaper, was available and showed viable differences over A500. Having better hardware is great, but when you're asking for more money, you MUST show customers why its more expensive. |
01 October 2022, 18:13 | #24 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 50
Posts: 2,953
|
On top of all that, in hindsight, 92-94 was a tough period for a lot of hardware and new platforms. It was the beginning of the end for anything not having strong 3d capabilities. The performance, timing and price of the Playstation really changed the market overnight and the world was never the same again.
With some better planning Atari maybe could have had developers utilize the DSP for 3d calculations. In combination with its chunky mode and the 030 it could have been a clear generational leap over ST. In the end, it probably wouldn't have mattered in the same way it wouldn't haver mattered for commodore if the CD32 came with a 030. PCs were already getting chepaer and and making up for the crappy multimedia capabilities just some years before that. |
01 October 2022, 22:27 | #25 |
Guru Meditating
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 2,339
|
Atari needed DML and his BadMood Doom port, back in 1993. if they'd had that they'd have won, hands down
|
01 October 2022, 22:29 | #26 |
CaptainM68K-SPS France
|
|
02 October 2022, 00:14 | #27 |
HOL/FTP busy bee
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 46
Posts: 31,608
|
|
02 October 2022, 10:06 | #28 |
Guru Meditating
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 2,339
|
Well both came out in 1993, but I was more suggesting that the falcon needed a ‘killer app’, and BadMood shows what the falcon is capable of if the cpu dsp and fpu are used in concert
|
02 October 2022, 11:43 | #29 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 500
|
I doubt the documentation of the DSP etc was good enough. Like the Tom and Jerry chips in the Jaguar the developers couldn't easily make use of the features! At least the A1200 had a faster CPU and was 90% back compatible so the benefits were obvious even without Diggers and Oscar AGA
|
02 October 2022, 11:52 | #30 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 50
Posts: 2,953
|
Quote:
The Motorola 56001 wasn’t new in 1992, it had been around for a few years and for examplr NeXT had been using it for at least 2 years at that point. |
|
02 October 2022, 11:55 | #31 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Ur, Atlantis
Posts: 1,914
|
Alien vs Predator for Jaguar was a killer app. It didn't help much. N64 had two arguably best games ever, yet it got trounced by PSX anyway.
Magic bullets seldom win hardware wars. |
02 October 2022, 13:41 | #32 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 500
|
What software was available for the Falcon period? What was the ST compatability level? There was a range of issues but documentation, hardware availability and no unique software other than possibly Cubase were definitely some of them.
|
02 October 2022, 13:58 | #33 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 50
Posts: 2,953
|
Atari Falcon exact launch date?
Quote:
I’d say the Falcon was a great computer for musicians and the later ”buy out” from C-Labs in 1995 shows they had a market and some value. In that niche the price was much more attractive compared to the competition. But for everyone else, mostly ST users looking to upgrade, there was not enough Falcon specific software to justify the price premium. Unless you dig into the benefits of the DSP the Falcon has mostly the Chunky mode as an advantage over say the at the time cheaper A1200. The 16MHz 030 is as we know somewhat crippled by the design they chose to maintain compatibility with ST software. That alone and the fact that the base model only had 1MB ram…paints a picture to consumers that Falcon isnt gonna fly until later (custom software + waiting for multi tos, so the why not ”wait and see” as a conumer. |
|
02 October 2022, 14:45 | #34 |
Going nowhere
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 50
Posts: 8,997
|
I think also the problem was Atari itself, they had burned too many bridges by this point.
I'm reminded when the STe was first announced, and you had die hard fans of the ST like Steve Bak, Wayne Smithson and a few others basically not that interested in it because they had to cater to the STfm models as a priority. When it seems impossible to get the support of those that actually were fans of the system, what chance developers that had either ignored or already moves away from Atari? |
02 October 2022, 22:17 | #35 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: France
Posts: 581
|
Quote:
Finally the 1200 appeared few time after and I jumped on it. What do you mean? I only know that the Falcon bus is 16 bits. Is it that? |
|
02 October 2022, 23:36 | #36 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 50
Posts: 2,953
|
Quote:
Not sure there is one true answer to this, some say the initial design prototype (Sparrow) had a 68000 which would explain 16+24 bit.. As you might know, there were 2 competing designs for what eventually became the Falcon and Sparrow was definitely the one more similar to the ST line, offering greater backward compatibility. The other design was based around a 040 with a completely new case (which definitely inspired Sony for the PS2 case design btw). Anyway, long story short, I *think* the Sparrow design with all its limitations around the CPU was chosen because it was cheaper but also more compatible with the existing software catalog. |
|
03 October 2022, 13:19 | #37 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 2,295
|
Quote:
It actually does not. The 16bit motherboard was probably slightly cheaper ... but surely just by a few bucks and not by a meaningful margin. A1200 has a 32-bit data-bus and was selling a a lower price. So in the end both competitors limited the power of their newest machines unnecessarily: Atari by using a 16bit design and Commodore by not adding FastRAM. |
|
03 October 2022, 14:21 | #38 |
Going nowhere
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 50
Posts: 8,997
|
I'd like to see real world computational tests between the A1200's EC 020 with fast ram, and the Falcons 030 and its bus.
I'm going to hedge my bets the A1200 is marginally quicker. |
03 October 2022, 14:29 | #39 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 50
Posts: 2,953
|
Quote:
Not the 16-bit bus maybe but the 24-bit address space? |
|
03 October 2022, 16:57 | #40 | |
Guru Meditating
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 2,339
|
Quote:
https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopi...233141#p233141 |
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
[Atari ST conversion] Sinbad and the Throne of the Falcon | DamienD | HOL contributions | 17 | 04 January 2021 15:24 |
Quake 2 on a 'stock' Atari Falcon | trixster | Retrogaming General Discussion | 20 | 17 August 2015 15:15 |
atari falcon DSP programmer help? | starlord | Retrogaming General Discussion | 16 | 29 October 2012 15:00 |
Atari C-lab Falcon For Sale!! | SPARKYPETE | MarketPlace | 22 | 11 September 2008 01:49 |
Pinball Dreams for Atari Falcon 030 | MethodGit | Retrogaming General Discussion | 29 | 07 February 2005 21:05 |
|
|