New Vampire Cards: Firebird and IceDragon

[Pyromania]

It looks like the Apollo Team is delivering what customers were asking for.

[chucsmom69]

Originally Posted by Pyromania

It looks like the Apollo Team is delivering what customers were asking for.

I wouldnt bank on it, they have left a sour taste in many V2 500/600 owners mouths with the let down of false promises i.e Native/AGA over HDMI!!! I think PIStorm will start to fill the space usually took up by Vampires!

[tFt]

Originally Posted by Havie

It's a shame, sounded l like a good plan. When I got my V1200 a few months ago, Igor told me he was sitting on loads of cards. I wonder what happened?

Yea the RAPTOR seemed like the best alternative for people who just want an "060" to run demos and stuff on, and don't need all the other fancy stuff. There really is no good alternative for axx-cards for this demografic, so I think it was a big mistake to not do the RAPTOR (or similar cheaper and simpler card)

[grond]

Perhaps they'll do a cut down version of the new cards later on.

[Signman]

Originally Posted by grond

Perhaps they'll do a cut down version of the new cards later on.

Well yes, perhaps. Sounds like a plan.

[sean_sk]

Originally Posted by chucsmom69

I wouldnt bank on it, they have left a sour taste in many V2 500/600 owners mouths with the let down of false promises.

Or maybe you could think of it from a more positive point of view: with these new line of cards they can start to realize some of the more highly requested features that people have been asking for.

[Anubis]

Nobody asked for lower price?

Waitin' for pistorm for A1200 and using FPGA minimig in meantime...

[Radertified]

Originally Posted by Anubis

Nobody asked for lower price?

That's a good point. I looked up how much they will sell for and according to their order page:

Apollo FIREBIRD V4: EURO 440 (without VAT / Non EU)
Apollo ICEDRAKE V4: EURO 450 (without VAT / Non EU)

That's way more than I would have expected given the competitive nature of FPGA solutions these days.

[kriz]

Thew problem making more of the V2 and similar with same fpga is that it is not made anymore and not so easy to buy.. Check post from Gunnar regarding this: "The ALTERA FPGA used on the V1200/V2 models did came out in the year 2007. From 2007 to today 2021 is in technology times a very long time.

In the year 2009, the successor model of this FPGA did came out. And in 2014, ALTERAs developing tools stopped supporting the FPGA used on the V2. The FPGA on the Vampire2 is since long time "end of live". It has no software support since 7 years, and the chips are now also not produced anymore. You can not genuinely buy them anymore.

Making new cards, with new more modern FPGAs with more features is in my opinion the most sensible option. "

[Havie]

Originally Posted by kriz

Thew problem making more of the V2 and similar with same fpga is that it is not made anymore and not so easy to buy.. Check post from Gunnar regarding this: "The ALTERA FPGA used on the V1200/V2 models did came out in the year 2007. From 2007 to today 2021 is in technology times a very long time.

In the year 2009, the successor model of this FPGA did came out. And in 2014, ALTERAs developing tools stopped supporting the FPGA used on the V2. The FPGA on the Vampire2 is since long time "end of live". It has no software support since 7 years, and the chips are now also not produced anymore. You can not genuinely buy them anymore.

Making new cards, with new more modern FPGAs with more features is in my opinion the most sensible option. "

So the V2's are retro already!

Originally Posted by kriz

Thew problem making more of the V2 and similar with same fpga is that it is not made anymore and not so easy to buy.. Check post from Gunnar regarding this: "The ALTERA FPGA used on the V1200/V2 models did came out in the year 2007. From 2007 to today 2021 is in technology times a very long time.

In the year 2009, the successor model of this FPGA did came out. And in 2014, ALTERAs developing tools stopped supporting the FPGA used on the V2. The FPGA on the Vampire2 is since long time "end of live". It has no software support since 7 years, and the chips are now also not produced anymore. You can not genuinely buy them anymore.

Making new cards, with new more modern FPGAs with more features is in my opinion the most sensible option. "

The big questions are:
- will these new FPGA's last long enough or are they nearly end of life
- will they really support them or just add 5 or 6 new features and then abandon for a newer project.

The V4 has no legacy code, the Firebird and IceDrake will be filled with legacy code that enables or supports the old Amiga components. So yes, the cards will share some equal specifications (16 Bit audio, IDE, Network, RTC, RTG, 512 MB) but the internals of the card are different. That means that cores will be different and that new features need to be researched for each machine. So the V4 without legacy will probably go first with new features and the IceDrake last because it is the most complex one and history repeats.

[kriz]

Indeed, I hope they can source this FPGA for a longer time period... Hope the process will not be too time consuming, the scene needs a new card for sale and available!

[seb132]

Basically, does it mean we can throw our V2’s and go again with those new V4’s...?
No more development on V2?

[Samurai_Crow]

Originally Posted by seb132

Basically, does it mean we can throw our V2’s and go again with those new V4’s...?
No more development on V2?

I think so. The supply of Cyclone 3 chips is depleted. The 68080 on them goes into maintenance mode.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Radertified

That's a good point. I looked up how much they will sell for and according to their order page:

Apollo FIREBIRD V4: EURO 440 (without VAT / Non EU)
Apollo ICEDRAKE V4: EURO 450 (without VAT / Non EU)

That's way more than I would have expected given the competitive nature of FPGA solutions these days.

That's what the V1200 cost as well.
So, no news here.

And the V4 is a lot more capable than the V1200 is.

[guybrush]

Stand alone seems interesting, especially with the limitations that FPGA Mister implementation has; but as far as expansion board; I won't be getting a Vampire for sure.

If I want to have something that take over my Amiga hardware and replace it in FPGA, I just get the stand alone and put it in a hollow Amiga case; but that's me. Accelerator boards function is to expand the CPU capabilities and improve the original onboard hardware, but when it take over and does everything in FPGA, I just don't see the point in having it.
Sure, my Amiga will run 140 times faster than the reference, but I don't care... I don't make 3d on an Amiga because it is silly in 2021 and with blender out there. Not sure what you can do with an Amiga accelerated beside 3D, because even video editing is not even an option when you have a more modern computer (pretty sure there are people that love to go around with their horse instead of a car; to each their own).

As long as my WB has enough memory and I can run the few apps I still use for fun now and then, 50MHz with a 030 and 64 MB is more than enough for my needs. I would totally get a standalone version; although at 500 dollars, you wonder why would you buy that when you can buy a small cheap micro-computer for a fraction of the cost, but again; to each their own.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by guybrush

As long as my WB has enough memory and I can run the few apps I still use for fun now and then, 50MHz with a 030 and 64 MB is more than enough for my needs.

I have a Blizzard 1230-IV with 32MB and it is plenty enough most of the stuff I do. For debugging it is better than a Vampire because its MMU permits using The Enforcer to trap illegal memory accesses. For web browsing and compiling C code it is adequate, but more speed would be nice.

The main reason I would get an IceDrake for the A1200 is that programs are now being released that need AGA and at least an an 060 to run well, but good 060's are a limited resource and have become ridiculously expensive. I have a Vampire in my A600 which is great, but on an A1200 the lack of integration between native AGA and RTG video would be an issue (it's not so bad on the A600 because I rarely want to use ECS).

My Vampire 600 V2 has a Micro SD card slot but I haven't yet managed to get it to work, and for some reason the CF Card on the A600's internal IDE port is very slow at writing. So the fast IDE port on the IceDrake is a desirable feature. The only other bottleneck in my A600 is the PCMCIA Ethernet card. A 100Mb interface would make IBrowse go much faster.

16bit audio is nice, and 512MB of RAM is astounding (my PC only has 1GB), but the lack of MMU debugging would be a deal breaker - except that I have a second A1200 motherboard that the IceDrake could fit onto. If I do this I will probably build a custom case for it and use my A2000 keyboard to make an A1000/3000 lookalike.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by jbenam

BTW, I have always found very confusing how Gunnar doesn't do the slightest research on how certain names have already been used in the Amiga world - or maybe he just pretends he doesn't know about it so he can still use them - it's already highly confusing that the Apollo Team does not have anything to do with the old Apollo accelerators, but now you also have a FireBird, just like hese's AA3000+'s Prometheus based PCI daughterboard.(

Here's a piece of trivia, back in the final days of Natami when Apollo team was about to form there was an internal debate and the project almost got to be named 'Omega'. The Apollo name came as a last second plot twist and was immediately adopted without further thought gone to it.

[nikosidis]

To me the Vampire cards are to expensive. The cut down version for A1200 I was looking forward to and would probably purchased. Almost the only reason I would buy a Vampire is for 060 Demos.

[Havie]

Originally Posted by Tsak

Here's a piece of trivia, back in the final days of Natami when Apollo team was about to form there was an internal debate and the project almost got to be named 'Omega'. The Apollo name came as a last second plot twist and was immediately adopted without further thought gone to it.

Cheaper than 060, faster and with extra features that you can chose to use or not. I agree that the accelerator only option would have been good but its nice to have RTG.