AGA or RTG

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Chucky

well you need to understand that there are a extreme chipshortage in the world so you CAN'T just click and buy. and also for the Warp you need to send them a cpu..

while for the ACA. you cannot click and buy one either as of some reason it is not released.. to be honest he is getting late to the show. sure he got some cpus. but he need to deliver something. also he needs to be cheaper than Warp1260 as the warp got way more functions than the ACA. but he must outshine the TF1260 aswell so he will have issues with the pricing. but. well the ACA is the only of those 3 cards that haven't been released. not even a protoype shown running.

Chucky,

But I don't want a 68060. And I can click and buy a lovely ACA1221lc and they are lovely! SUCH GREAT VALUE! What a great piece of kit.

I noted to you what I wrote to WARP1260 boys. Would like to buy WARP1260, top configuration, please provide total with shipping to Canada and payment method.. I sent to their website listed email and in the website noted "CONTACT" link.

Please Chucky, I feel like you guys are all making a bag full of excuses here and you pretend like I'm out to lunch for asking a simple question when I felt like blowing some random cash on this 68060. The WARP boys don't say you MUST send them a CPU. It exactly says: If you don't have CPU, board will be priced individually.. ...which is what I requested. It was too much to reply of course.

VAPORWARE and I certainly have no desire to hand over money to someone who can't be bothered replying to a 2 sentence email to buy. As noted, imagine if there is an issue with the kit received? Forget about it!

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

Chucky, we believe in you, you can do it!
Look at how small Matzes Picasso II++ is. You can just make the case bigger if you have to, I'll approve that too.

THIS IS EXACTLY the card that would surely fit inside a 1200 original case, likely without the floppy being removed if the Zorro slot ribbon allowed freedom of movement.

[Chucky]

160eur for a 020 with 16MB ram? great value? when you can get a TF1230 with 128MB of ram for less... with a 50MHz 030.. well.. great value. yup..

and about warp they have been VERY clear of the 060 situation. you misinterpreted that.
it is not vaporware. as I got one board here.. also several others have one. ACA1260 is however vaporware so far as noone have seen it.

but if you doesn't want a 060 why so negative.. if is not of your interest. and if you are happuy with a low-grade expensive 020. then it was never a product for you and your complaint is void.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

THIS IS EXACTLY the card that would surely fit inside a 1200 original case, likely without the floppy being removed if the Zorro slot ribbon allowed freedom of movement.

HOWcould that fit? connector and all. NOPE it would not..
and Zorro2.. nahh imho. zorro2 is too slow for RTG

[grelbfarlk]

Originally Posted by Chucky

HOWcould that fit? connector and all. NOPE it would not..
and Zorro2.. nahh imho. zorro2 is too slow for RTG

You could fit it vertically instead of horizontally if you just cut a slot in the top of the case too.


Also my A2000 with Merlin disagrees with you, don't be so bandwidthist
Here this should help you visualize it.

Note: Not to scale

[stefcep2]

Haha. This thread takes me waayyyy back. I even had a letter published in CU Amiga requesting hardware manufacturers stop with their endless RAM cards and '030 accelerators for the A1200 and just give me one goddamn 24 bit card back in 1996. Never happened (who could afford the ppc and oven on a chip ppc permedia!)


Anyway I went from A1200 on 1084s and hated the flicker for productivity software to a NEC 3D monitor and Dblscan modes which were slowww, to fblit, and ftext to make 256 color dblscan modes usable, to an A4000 68040 with CV64/3d and scan doubler (which was 16 bit) to my current machine that I have just had repaired an A4000 with CS II 68060, CV 64, Indivision AGA. Finally happy-AGA for naive chipset games and productivity (eg Dpaint, Brilliance, SCALA, and big high res screens and 24 bit for other productivity eg Cinema 4D, ImageFx, TVPaint.


But no way would I go out and buy my hardware today.

[Chucky]

It is funny. as the building of TF1260s as one example is not driven by money. he would have one now if the attitude was better.. but as money is not the driver.. we decide to say "no" to entitled people... and more SHOULD..

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by stefcep2

Haha. This thread takes me waayyyy back. I even had a letter published in CU Amiga requesting hardware manufacturers stop with their endless RAM cards and '030 accelerators for the A1200 and just give me one goddamn 24 bit card back in 1996. Never happened (who could afford the ppc and oven on a chip ppc permedia!)


Anyway I went from A1200 on 1084s and hated the flicker for productivity software to a NEC 3D monitor and Dblscan modes which were slowww, to fblit, and ftext to make 256 color dblscan modes usable, to an A4000 68040 with CV64/3d and scan doubler (which was 16 bit) to my current machine that I have just had repaired an A4000 with CS II 68060, CV 64, Indivision AGA. Finally happy-AGA for naive chipset games and productivity (eg Dpaint, Brilliance, SCALA, and big high res screens and 24 bit for other productivity eg Cinema 4D, ImageFx, TVPaint.


But no way would I go out and buy my hardware today.

I couldn't agree more. It is actually interesting how overlooked the 1200 is for RTG even back in the day when it was possible and market for it was bigger and current.

In this day of subscription software (looking at you Adobe) it is a pleasure to go back to Amiga productivity software and play with it as it should be - you know, when you bought software and it was yours and the creeps in Silicon Valley wouldn't just load updates at will for you or block you out of it if your subscription expired. Oh sure, the GUI of those Amiga apps shows age obviously, but it is truly impressive what those apps were/are able to achieve, and most importantly in what application size. You'd be hard pressed to find anything on more than 6 floppies, and that's with plenty of example art, clipart, etc. Most apps fit on 1 floppy. Many apps come on 2 or 3 at most 880K floppies - AMAZING.

It's true though that Indivision gives you the res boost, takes flicker out and then what's left is just the missing colours with the supported Amiga modes only.

Back in this thread someone argued that this is just as relevant to the authenticity of the experience as the Amiga and productivity software. And having Indivisions available to us now, I can't argue that flicker fixer is a big step toward addressing a huge chunk of the issue with lack of RTG on A1200. Once you have that...maybe RTG is not such a huge deal.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Chucky

HOWcould that fit? connector and all. NOPE it would not..
and Zorro2.. nahh imho. zorro2 is too slow for RTG

Hang the Zorro ribbon off an accelerator card internally to avoid need for interconnect?

That it is doable and possible is beyond any doubt.

Weather someone is creative enough to execute it is the question.

[Chucky]

ribboncable.. whaa.. lots of noise on that cable. would introduce alot of potential issues. NOPE. not a working way.

but as you think it is so easy: you are welcome. do it yourself

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Chucky

It is funny. as the building of TF1260s as one example is not driven by money. he would have one now if the attitude was better.. but as money is not the driver.. we decide to say "no" to entitled people... and more SHOULD..

Chucky, please forgive me for expecting a response from someone when I offer to sponsor their efforts. How inconsiderate of me to send communication via official means provided by makers of WARP1260 and think a reply would be a courtesy. How rude to think that if they wish to not answer those emails an auto-reply should be set up saying: "We're busy, we'll reply when we feel like it sometime in the future, maybe...or maybe not."

I'm such a dick for giving iComp my money/support because I click, I pay, product arrives and...oh look, what's this weird unusual thing? A confirmation email? A reply email to my question? What weirdos iComp are to reply to people who want to support their work, right?

I find it very hard to believe that you are also that emotionally insecure or needy. I told you that I found it fascinating to read that TF1260 was shut down because people like me....dicks. Oh the sensitivity.

I told you, the whole experience gave me time to think about it and conclude that it is completely unnecessary for me.

Yes, 020 and 16MB for 160 Euro (less for me because I don't pay VAT) is better than TF1230 128MB because that ACA 020 16MB is here, it is real, I can buy it with ease at a click right now, tomorrow, yesterday. It is an excellent value against just a RAM expansion and it provides acceleration, RAM and perfect function to take the 1200 a step up and able to do what 98% of users require. Interestingly, it is also small, so it would likely work perfectly with something in between providing that Zorro slot on a ribbon cable we talked about.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

You could fit it vertically instead of horizontally if you just cut a slot in the top of the case too.


Also my A2000 with Merlin disagrees with you, don't be so bandwidthist
Here this should help you visualize it.

Note: Not to scale

NICE Graphic work! Did you do that in ImageFX?

Would you remove the floppy drive from inside the 1200 and replace it with an emulator to make room for this Picasso card in a Zorro II slot? I'm betting many would go for that.

I'm not sure if on the 1200 DF1 external can be made to act as DF0...in case someone insists on wanting that if at all necessary.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Chucky

ribboncable.. whaa.. lots of noise on that cable. would introduce alot of potential issues. NOPE. not a working way.

but as you think it is so easy: you are welcome. do it yourself

How do those PCI-E extension/risers work then? They seem to work fine out there in the wild. Tons of people use them for GPUs. I was thinking of getting one for my 3060 if a PC ends up going in the A1500 case somehow.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

How do those PCI-E extension/risers work then? They seem to work fine out there in the wild. Tons of people use them for GPUs. I was thinking of getting one for my 3060 if a PC ends up going in the A1500 case somehow.

you are free to do it yourself and you will notice..

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

I find it very hard to believe that you are also that emotionally insecure or needy. I told you that I found it fascinating to read that TF1260 was shut down because people like me....dicks. Oh the sensitivity.

shut down? aprox 500 delivered so far and more going out...

Yes, 020 and 16MB for 160 Euro (less for me because I don't pay VAT) is better than TF1230 128MB because that ACA 020 16MB is here, it is real, I can buy it with ease at a click right now, tomorrow, yesterday. It is an excellent value against just a RAM expansion and it provides acceleration, RAM and perfect function to take the 1200 a step up and able to do what 98% of users require. Interestingly, it is also small, so it would likely work perfectly with something in between providing that Zorro slot on a ribbon cable we talked about.

you can get TF1230 today. with 64 or 128MB of ram. and if not buy it. why not build it yourself. data is out there free to use. Builders can build it with 64MB of ram for like 130-140ish euros with a small profit for their work. if you do it yourseld you could maybe stretch it to aprox 100eur per board..
this including a 50MHz 030..

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

What are you on about? Give it up already if you don't know what you're talking about.

Oh, the irony.

I sent TWO emails, with 2 sentences each. (Would like to buy WARP1260, top configuration, please provide total with shipping to Canada and payment method.), to the website provided email, which apparently there was no interest to answer.

And you started asking lots of questions and moaning in public forums, despite being given perfectly valid reasons why you might not get a reply from them, and why answers to your email wouldn't offer you much information beyond what you were already told anyway.

Besides, you seem to lack an awareness of how you appear to others, so we only know that you were polite and courteous based on your own word. You certainly don't seem that way in these public discussions.

What are you on about with iComp about "hassling him and complaining" you assumed occurred? Didn't I state repeatedly that my experience on all transactions and interactions/questions/requests has been fantastic with iComp?

I never said you did. In fact, my entire point was that you didn't so you can't compare the two situations. Pay attention.

And you are wrong it appears, as Jens noted in one email about the Reloaded 1200 that iComp is not his full time activity by any means. If so, if he can achieve that level of professionalism on product he does for fun, it only makes others like WARP1260 look even more incompetent.

Indeed, but his full time job is is own development business to spend as he sees fit. IComp is one branch of his livelihood; it's not his hobby. And that's the point to note here.

It's been about a year since I noted my poor experience with the WARP1260 team. Where can I click and purchase one, if I so desired? Oh...I see. That's what I thought.

First off, you were given reasons why the Warp situation is as it is. But anyway, do tell us: where can you click and purchase an A1200 Reloaded, if you so desired? Where can you even find any detailed specs about it? What sort of RTG capability will it have? Can it do full HD? 4K? VGA, HDMI, DP or DVI output? Does it include audio? Does it support 3D acceleration?

Is my standard of wanting information on the website or response to email asking to buy the product they are apparently selling too much to expect? If this is what I'm getting asking to buy it, just imagine what one gets trying to get support if it turns out to be a flaky product!

Aw, bless you and your entitlements. Yes, your expectations are too high, as has been explained to you repeatedly.

Fully over 68060 on the Amiga. Totally useless for what I use my Amiga for, when I use it. MacBook Air money for an Amiga accelerator? I hardly see why any Amiga user would't be happy with A1200 at 68030. It is more than sufficient, unless you have some inferiority complex in SysInfo - seems to be the ultimate goal for most. Pay top end GPU money to play some low res Doom port? Honestly - in what world? There are logical limits to everything.

Clearly it's not for you, and yet here you are, still getting bent out of shape over it. If you want a MacBook, then off you go. Everyone has different use cases for their Amigas - some might say you're an idiot for wanting an '030, when an '000 is enough for anyone.

Personally, an '060 is nice, and an '030 would really struggle with the RTG setup in my A1200.

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

Hang the Zorro ribbon off an accelerator card internally to avoid need for interconnect?

And which accelerators, exactly, provide this interface? Sure, it's possible, but ribbon cables like that are a bad idea as Chucky mentions below. The BlizzardPPC accelerator does provide a similar solution - a small, PCI-ish interface on the accelerator to connect a graphics card to. Besides, if you're putting it on an accelerator, why limit yourself to Zorro-II speeds and addressing?

That it is doable and possible is beyond any doubt.

Indeed it is, provided you keep the connections close (as in the BlizzardPPC+BlizzardVision setup). And, as I pointed out before, IComp take on contract work. Go and put your money where your mouth is.

Weather someone is creative enough to execute it is the question.

Plenty of people have the ability to do it, that's not the problem. It's whether it seems worthwhile for someone to spend lots of time and money doing it that's the question. Again, put your money where your mouth is: offer a bounty. Stump up £20,000 and someone might be interested in putting the time in. If the market demand is as great as you seem to think it is, you'll have no problem making back your money by selling your new graphics card / accelerator combo.

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

How do those PCI-E extension/risers work then? They seem to work fine out there in the wild. Tons of people use them for GPUs. I was thinking of getting one for my 3060 if a PC ends up going in the A1500 case somehow.

I thought you knew all about these things, since you seem to be quite adamant on things like compatibility (both mechanical and electrical), development time and other people's technical hobbies... But anyway, the simple version is that PCIe is serial, not parallel as PCI is, and thus far less susceptible to the issues of parallel buses like noise and bit synchronicity. Why do you think that, like PCI, hard drives also went to serial instead of staying parallel?

[grelbfarlk]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

And which accelerators, exactly, provide this interface? Sure, it's possible, but ribbon cables like that are a bad idea as Chucky mentions below. The BlizzardPPC accelerator does provide a similar solution - a small, PCI-ish interface on the accelerator to connect a graphics card to. Besides, if you're putting it on an accelerator, why limit yourself to Zorro-II speeds and addressing?

I swear I've seen bus expanders on ribbon cables, from that recent thread and a little browsing I found these:
Ramiga Z7 Busboard



Ateo Bus (Spoiler: It's cheating because it's ISA)



Shuttleboard 2000

[stefcep2]

Just trying to work out what's the argument here from both sides.

If I was going to drop the sort of money the Warp is asking, and I emailed them asking for a price and ETA and got no reply, yeah well I wouldn't be impressed either and would also question their after-sales service and support and whether I should buy it. Even an automated email "saying due x,y and z, we have no ETA we're not taking orders at this time"

Sorry I don't accept the "This isn't our day job, so we don't have time to answer an email about sale or support". That's just bad customer service I'm afraid.

If you're asking good money for you products then you answer email sales enquiries, not ifs or buts, or risk customers walking away and telling others that you don't answer sales emails. But don't blame the customer for doing that. If you can't manage to answer a sales email BEFORE you take people's money, then why would customers trust that you would after you had their money? I wouldn't. This isn't a tenner on a mouse we're talking about here.

[stefcep2]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Oh, the irony.


And you started asking lots of questions and moaning in public forums, despite being given perfectly valid reasons why you might not get a reply from them, and why answers to your email wouldn't offer you much information beyond what you were already told anyway.

Nope. That's for the business owner to answer.

Besides, you seem to lack an awareness of how you appear to others, so we only know that you were polite and courteous based on your own word. You certainly don't seem that way in these public discussions.

You're just guessing there. Anyway this is a business transaction. He's not emailing them to make friends. Its a simply business query that wold happen countless times everyday and everywhere in the world: "How much and when?"

I never said you did. In fact, my entire point was that you didn't so you can't compare the two situations. Pay attention.

Bit rude there

Indeed, but his full time job is is own development business to spend as he sees fit. IComp is one branch of his livelihood; it's not his hobby. And that's the point to note here.

Irrelevant.

First off, you were given reasons why the Warp situation is as it is. But anyway, do tell us: where can you click and purchase an A1200 Reloaded, if you so desired? Where can you even find any detailed specs about it? What sort of RTG capability will it have? Can it do full HD? 4K? VGA, HDMI, DP or DVI output? Does it include audio? Does it support 3D acceleration?

Who gave him the reasons? Forum posters. Not Good Enough. People selling should give him the reason. In a two sentence email, automated even would be adequate.

Aw, bless you and your entitlements. Yes, your expectations are too high, as has been explained to you repeatedly.

I think yours a too low tbh. Its not too much to expect a reply email to a sales enquiry from the people selling the damned thing.

Clearly it's not for you, and yet here you are, still getting bent out of shape over it. If you want a MacBook, then off you go. Everyone has different use cases for their Amigas - some might say you're an idiot for wanting an '030, when an '000 is enough for anyone.

That's the Linux excuse:" Hey this broken or is shit". "Ahh well its not for you them." At least Linux is free

Personally, an '060 is nice, and an '030 would really struggle with the RTG setup in my A1200.

AN '060 is nice as is RTG. I have them both, But given the price/performance its really an emotional rather than rational decision to buy. And he was emotionally invested, but he's not anymore and that's because his experience with the lack of communication.


Look a while I bought a GBS flicker fixer/scan doubler in a nice box with various fixes, proper amiga cable from a one man show. It took him literally over 4 months after paying and multiple unanswered polite and gentle emails to get it. And when it arrived, it didn't and still doesn't output video. So now what: more waiting, If I send it in, will I get get back, will I hear form him again. So I gave up and forgot about it. Until I got back in to Amiga again recntly. And then decided to follow it up. "Send me pics he says". So I do. Months ago. No reply yet.


If its starts with shit service and communication its probably going to end that way.



There's this idea that because we're a niche market, we almost have to BEG to give some sellers our money. Its just not good enough.

[grelbfarlk]

I was all set to pay the guy who taped up boxes for Phase 5 for a GREX-4000 when he was all ready to remanufacture them and all I got was a bunch of hentai and some dick pics in response. This was unacceptable service.
Also, I'm detecting a significant amount of ribbon cablephobia from Daedalus and Chucky which is pretty shameful in TYOOLS 2021.