Doomed from the start

[Dazx]

Originally Posted by khph_re

So...Commodore
DOOM!
SNES
MegaDrive
PC getting cheaper.

I would also say Windoze 95 with the addition of IE and the explosion of the internet

[Reptile]

I wouldnt say Windows 95 but more the money Microsoft threw at marketing which you simply didn't see from Commodore.

But in 2010 the PC would still be dirt cheap had the Amiga survived or not, which makes you wonder where it would have fitted in todays market? Considering you can now buy PC's for £199 which have quite good specs and the issue of 100% compatibility with work and friends...

Apple survive with higher priced machines, so perhaps Amiga could have carried on as the poor mans Macintosh.

[mrbob2]

I think one point your forgetting is that the amiga was the A500 and A1200.

Whenever a new version came out, everyone only asked 1 question, is it going to be compatible with my old games? Everyone and myself included wanted a system that could run alien breed II a bit faster yet maintain compatibility with old games. To release a new amiga that could do doom would be to change a lot of the hardware, then when tomb raider came out it would need another overhaul and you could just keep releasing a new computer every 2 years or whenever a better technical game came along. Within 5 years the amiga we knew and love would no longer be an amiga, it would have simply transformed into a pc. Intel are a massive company that focus on processors, nvidia/ATI focus on gfx cards and (i cant think of one at the mo) xx company foucs on sound cards so theres no waycommodore could afford to develop all of those things.

The amiga was a computer IN a keybord, nowadays its a computer in a tower. The amiga would just have become another brand of pc like HP, Dell, Compaq etc

There would be nothing that you could call an amiga anymore so the Amiga in essence was past of history, not future.

Its like saying what if sinclair released a spectrum with 5mb of ram and hard drive, it makes no difference as these systems were the begining of the computer rollercoaster, no one knew how things would pan out in the future, how games would go from being 2 weeks of coding in someones bedroom to multimillion dollar hollywood blockbusters

One thing i have noticed is that theres no real love or nostaligia these days with modern tech. How many 360 owners look back fondly at XBOX games, how many ps3 owners chat on PSX forums about how good cyber sled was.

Amigas never had red ring of death or dead lasers, i can guarantee il be firing my A1200 up in 10 years time for a bash on SWOS.

The amiga may not have the technical power of even modern day phones, yet it has something that todays tech will never have.....

The Love from owners lucky enough to share the magic over decades of happiness

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by antonvaltaz

Warning: this post contains pointless speculation.

I've been thinking a bit about the death of the Amiga lately. I've seen a lot of people ask a lot of "what ifs" - what if Commodore marketed the A1000 better, what if the AGA chipset had been released earlier, what if they'd focused on their core Amiga business earlier.

But I'm wondering if the Amiga's death wasn't inevitable - even *before* the launch of the A1000.

Commodore were criticised for not properly deciding whether the Amiga was to be marketed as a 'home' computer or a professional 'business' computer. However, I don't think they ever had any long-term prospects in either sector. By 1985, IBM compatibles were already dominant in the business world (even if they were not yet a virtual monopoly). IBM's decision to use commodity parts, along with the emergence of compatible clone PCs like Compaq's, meant that they would *inevitably* become more affordable - even to home users - making the very concept of 'home computers' entirely redundant.

So my argument is that, for all the undoubted management and marketing incompetence at Commodore, there is literally nothing they could have done to save the Amiga from commercial oblivion. It never stood a chance.

Thoughts?

With that attitude, EVERYTHING is pointless.

Whats the point in buying DVD? It'll be superceeded.

Whats the point in buying Bluray? It'll be superceeded.

The Amiga was NEVER meant to last as long as it did, it was simply a product of its time as far as Commodore were concerned, that people still give a shit about it now is remarkable considering how long the classic Amigas have been out of production.

Fact is, with better handling the Amiga could have gone on to be the machine to dominate, it didn't happen, but certainly the Amiga was never doomed from the start, with that attitude, everything is doomed as everything gets replaced in time.

[Siggy999]

Hindsight is always 20-20. Viewing it from now it's easy to speculate, and viewing it from the OP's criteria you could say the same thing of just about anything made in the last 20 years.

The Ami was introduced as a home computer - many people I know balked at the 1000 when it came out, as it didn't look like a home computer of the time. Several bought one when the A500 came out. It was familiar. It looked like a home comp of the day did - a keyboard looking thing you plugged other stuff into.

Can't fault them for that - it was the move to make in that time. The fact that home computing shifted to affordable - expandable - updatable - systems that folks could use for work and home, and home gaming as we knew it would shift more to consoles... who'da thunk it?
Even companies that were a part of that change (SEGA for instance - going from the Sega PC to the Master System and eventually the Genesis/Mega Drive) felt the squeeze by the end of it.

Even if they did see the age of the keyboard/box home computer coming to an end, the 'big box' systems didn't really take off so well (see above - what people expected). Even if they had the expandability required to keep up with the rest of the pack, then you had the issue of backwards compatability - a lose lose prospect of either having something way too expensive, or alienating your customer base.

I don't think it was doomed from the start - fell victim of being ahead of its time, failing to establish and maintain a niche, and eventually falling behind as other technology advanced.

More just ending up between a rock and a hard place.

[Reptile]

Having said that though, in the post-iMac era, would you not agree that the time for computer in a keyboard style would in fact be pretty "now" if one were released today? I can see it being viewed as ultra-modern rather than old-fashioned, alas we come full circle.

[Unknown_K]

I can't see calling something ultra modern because of the form factor, if anything it would have to be a tablet to get that name.

If any platform was going to take over it needed to be a great design, come at the correct time, have major support from 3rd parties, and tons of marketing. The Amiga never had the last two. Even the design was very dated by the time it died.

[Siggy999]

Originally Posted by Reptile

Having said that though, in the post-iMac era, would you not agree that the time for computer in a keyboard style would in fact be pretty "now" if one were released today? I can see it being viewed as ultra-modern rather than old-fashioned, alas we come full circle.

No, I wouldn't agree. Even the Mac, after years of computers in monitors, googie deco sci fi designs, finally saw the writing and embraced the 'expandable box' model (last mac I used at work - big aluminum case with easy access).

The pda, the craze of 'everything on your phone' works because you carry it in your pocket, compute on the go.

The laptop works because you take it with you and setup anywhere - fold it up and put it in your briefcase/carrybag/manpurse-satchel. You trade off that expandability for portable convenience. You open it, and you use it.

Personally I think the migration to tower-box style is good. I'm glad for it. If a part breaks, becomes dated, I buy a new part and replace it - very easily and quickly.
It lives under my desk - giving me a lot more desk space than in my Amiga days as well.

[switchblade]

Just wanted to chime in, again.

If the Amiga was truly "doomed from the start", it would've never been successful in the first place. The fact that the Amiga became popular with the A500 and owned the competition for several years, kinda proves your argument wrong.

The only way a system can be "doomed from the start", is if the entire product was a bad idea to begin with. Take the Sega 32X, for example. That little turd was doomed from the start, because it was the wrong product released at the wrong time. You can probably add the Atari Jaguar and the Phillips CD-I along as well. The Amiga was just too good for the competition when it was released, but it became successful. Not the same thing as, "doomed from the start."

[antonvaltaz]

Okay, I've been giving this a bit more thought, and perhaps I was overstating the case a little (but only a little).

I still maintain that *any* machine (not just the Amiga) marketed as a 'home computer' - i.e. as an affordable machine that could do games as well as basic creative and office stuff - never had any future once IBM compatibles became affordable in the mid 90s. There was just no point to them anymore. I also maintain that by 1985, there was enough momentum behind the IBM compatibles that it was inevitable that they *would* eventually become affordable. So in that sense I think I was right.

However, I guess it was Commodore's decision to market it as a home computer. If it had pushed it more wholeheartedly as a professional system for multimedia and desktop video, then perhaps it could have established a niche like Apple did with DTP and design (but of course Apple themselves were struggling until about a decade ago).

But then *IF* the Amiga had developed as a professional machine, rather than as a home computer for enthusiasts, the whole nature of the community would have been different, and the whole user experience would have differed - e.g. like the Apple Mac of the day,probably not much in the way of games or affordable software, and probably not the 'budget' machines like the A500, A600, or A1200.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by antonvaltaz

I still maintain that *any* machine (not just the Amiga) marketed as a 'home computer' - i.e. as an affordable machine that could do games as well as basic creative and office stuff - never had any future once IBM compatibles became affordable in the mid 90s. There was just no point to them anymore. I also maintain that by 1985, there was enough momentum behind the IBM compatibles that it was inevitable that they *would* eventually become affordable. So in that sense I think I was right.

The A1000 was a 'high-end' computer when it was released and not an affordable machine by that time. The A500 was the 'home computer' and still it was marketed as an allrounder, not only a game machine. The fact that Commodore never really cared about promoting the Amiga (neither as high-end nor as a home-computer) and didn't care about upgrading it properly until it was too late put it out of business. So, 'doomed from the start' isn't really what it was like, but more a 'they fucked it up bad' kinda story

[antonvaltaz]

True, it seems they weren't sure which way to go with the A1000. IIRC it was priced between the Atari ST and the Apple Mac, and there didn't seem to be any coherent strategy. Then they decided to release the A500 in 1987 which of course made the Amiga hugely popular (in Europe at least) but in so doing stuck the public perception of it as a 'home computer', which was a category with a limited lifespan.

So perhaps it should be 1987, not 1985, when in hindsight the Amiga's fate was sealed.

[Paul_s]

The Amiga ended in its prime - I am at peace with this thread Now the Amiga is more loved than ever in a world of soul-less PCs and consoles... Whilst the Amiga was doomed at a later stage with it staying true to the original and losing pace with other technology what we had then was awesome!

The Amiga still impresses me technically, the demoscene is testament to this. I'm just happy the Classic Amiga's were made well hardware wise otherwise all we'd have is emulation (a good thing but the hardware is just something else ain't it? Like a loved one, pictures are nice but the real deal = ding dong)...

I booted up a 10GHz server today with fancy RAID controller and thought it was as interesting as watching a lettuce being cut up. Meanwhile in Amiga land I drooled and gave it a big hug

[khph_re]

over time though, (I think) other devices have tried to make themselves more Amiga like:

decent multitasking, custom chips for seperate tasks etc. But somehow more bloaty and less elegant.

[Djay]

for me the PSX took over from the Amiga, i had a Megadrive and SNES but still enjoyed playing and using the Amiga...

Doom arrived on the SNES, yes it was rubbish but i soon realised the Amiga had no nope of producing even a crap SNES clone

I played wipEout in my shop, during the first week of launch...

wow

That night i took home my own PSX, wipeout and B.A.R. the next day i trade in my SNES and Megadrive, this pretty much ended my 16-bit era, i hadnt even touched the PC at that point

thinking back the single most important mistake Commodore made was to develop hardware that was updated too slowly

the A1200 should of been a desktop.... and then the user upgrading can begin


---
oh yeah it is the techie who decided if a computer system sells well or not

Rich C.E.O - Ok, Bob your computer whizz, what do we need to get

Bob The Techie - We need to get CPU A and Motherboard B

Rich C.E.O - And that will give the edge over competitors because our business model will be faster

Bob The Techie - Yes

Rich C.E.O - Where do i sign?

[stevsurv]

Now were talking "if's"..? ok.. IF commodore at the time over the years would of listened to what the commodore engineers were saying and building at the time it would of been a different outcome.

AAA being an example as testing marketing and manufacturing surely would of had a positive outcome from amiga community alike. Unfortunately commodores answer with new stuff was always price or "Its too expensive to build". Thus a lot of it never saw light of day. A shame because the architecture was engineered from originality and not a CLONE like pc's or the latter Amy joke PC machines.

Yes we know PC's took over blah, blah, blah.. but What IF Commodore would of said YES instead of NO at the time? Just think how diferent it may be now?

[Adropac2]

Not a direct response to this thread but of the time Amiga died for most people i'm guessing

It was around the time of the Playstation that i stopped using my Amiga for any new games that would come out- it was mostly all about inferior Doom clones at that point or something that required additional much faster hardware and that's not what Amiga was about or even really any good in comparison to PC

It's why we rave about this glorious machine and why it was probably a good thing it ended sooner than some of us would have liked.I think the majority of us were enjoying the new generation that was Playstation back then to be too upset about any of it

And of course it didn't really die because we still played the odd game back then continue to do now.Quite legendary then

[Djay]

Originally Posted by Adropac2

It's why we rave about this glorious machine and why it was probably a good thing it ended sooner than some of us would have liked.I think the majority of us were enjoying the new generation that was Playstation back then to be too upset about any of itn

i have been reading some of the later issues of CU Amiga and Amiga Format, ones that i never read before as they were written after i had bought a PC and played PSX

they sounded like pretty dark (and sad) times, not much content and articles about hanging on in for a miracle

the goodbye message in Amiga Format is so sad

[Adropac2]

Originally Posted by Djay

the goodbye message in Amiga Format is so sad

Yeah i can imagine they must have been sad times.In a sense i'm glad i didn't stay with the sinking ship - even though i kept my A1200 and used Octamed still - because Amiga wasn't about desperate times
.My last game i got was Zeewolf 2 but i could see that after that things were changing

I'll have a read of that goodbye AF message some time though as Amiga is still very much alive with it's community and that does at least makes it less sad.I still genuinely enjoy gaming on Amiga as much as my other newer machines and this type of thing also seems reflected by lots of other users as well so it really doesn't feel like Amiga went anyway

I wonder how i would have felt had i not got into pc or Psx gaming and instead hung in there feeding off what little there was to feast for Amiga- a bit like how it felt for the Archimedes or Falcon days perhaps