Is JIT disabled when Cycle exact chipset emulation is activated?

Gaula92 · 22 June 2009, 11:28

Well that's my question. Is JIT disabled when cycle exact emulation is enabled for the chipset?
Is it possibled to have JIT enabled with cycle exact emulation + match A500 speed option set?

Thanks!

alexh · 22 June 2009, 11:31

Toni will know for sure but I think the answers are :

Yes.
No.

The whole point of cycle exact chipset emulation is accuracy. Something we are told you do not get with JIT. I thought that "cycle accurate" was limited to 68000 CPU and OCS/ECS chipset?

JIT is intended for fast emulation of higher level CPU's mainly aimed at workbench level applications.

TCD · 22 June 2009, 11:33

Doesn't make much sense, but I guess you have '24-bit addressing' enabled and thus JIT is greyed out. So yes to your last question.

Toni Wilen · 22 June 2009, 12:07

JIT is full 68020+ only. (EC/24-bit address space not supported)

Gaula92 · 22 June 2009, 12:38

I know JIT is full 68020+ only, but I can set cycle-exact chipset emulation with 68020, so cycle exact + JIT seems possible.
What I don't know is if JIT (on 68020) + Cycle exact chipset emulation + match A500 speed is real: it's possible to set it up, but I don't see any difference with JIT on and OFF in CYCLE EXACT mode.

IF I set JIT (on 68020) + match A500 speed, I get perfect sound & graphics in most chipset games, but they run smoother: if I set cycle exact along with JIT (on 68020) + match A500 speed, I see no different with JIT on and off, and that puzzles me as I don't know if the 68020 is running on JIT or not.

Another little question: Is OpenAL a solution for lag-free sound lie ASIO?
Or is it just a wrapper on DirectSound for system-independant audio?

Thanks again!

TCD · 22 June 2009, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaula88@hotmail

Another little question: Is OpenAL a solution for lag-free sound lie ASIO?
Or is it just a wrapper on DirectSound for system-independant audio?

It's more the latter : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAL

Toni Wilen · 22 June 2009, 12:54

68020 + cycle exact or A500 speed: unsupported. It may do something useful, it may break compatibility totally, it may do something else. It is guaranteed to be NOT cycle exact and has nothing to do with A500 cycle exact mode. It WILL change between versions.

It is (bad) compatibility tweak mainly.

OpenAL is another sound API. Some sound cards have native OpenAL, others emulate it via DirectSound.

Less latency: use portaudio ASIO/WDM-KS/WASAPI (but portaudio can be buggy..) Native version won't happen because 1) ASIO has incompatible license (stupid ASIO), other modes are really complex to use.

Gaula92 · 22 June 2009, 13:08

Thanks again, guys. I got it clearer now.
I just hope I don't turn into a half-insect monster after playing with all those settings at the same time! I think I need more suggar....hmm..just a bit more in my coffe...

Photon · 22 June 2009, 22:38

I think he wants to speed up flight sims et al to max without getting timing issues vs blitter etc?

Gaula92 · 23 June 2009, 10:34

yes, well, Ambermoon's pseudo 3d dungeons actually, but that's the idea

TCD · 23 June 2009, 10:39

What about warp mode (End + Pause)?

StingRay · 23 June 2009, 10:58

That would make games pretty much unplayable.

Photon · 23 June 2009, 13:41

Warp is just skipping 'wait for next frame', right? And what he wants is CPU+Blitter that 'finish sooner'. And immediate blits give timing issues.

He wants to speed things up because framerate is less than full.

Gaula: should be possible to double the emulated framerate by syncing to 100 Hz, that will emulate two frames in 1/50 second. Maybe even possible to turn off sync (in WinUAE!) and go to a 50 Hz mode, if you can pull the slider to 100 fps. That will give you 100fps, but the difference from the synced is that it will look smoother. (The game's fps is lower than 50, so in a 100 Hz mode each frame will be displayed at least twice.)

Toni Wilen · 23 June 2009, 13:49

What do you exactly want? Increase only CPU speed? Modify "emulated world" vs "real world" ratio? (FPS Adj. does that)

22 June 2009, 11:28	#1
Gaula92 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 527	Is JIT disabled when Cycle exact chipset emulation is activated? Well that's my question. Is JIT disabled when cycle exact emulation is enabled for the chipset? Is it possibled to have JIT enabled with cycle exact emulation + match A500 speed option set? Thanks!

22 June 2009, 12:38	#5
Gaula92 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 527	I know JIT is full 68020+ only, but I can set cycle-exact chipset emulation with 68020, so cycle exact + JIT seems possible. What I don't know is if JIT (on 68020) + Cycle exact chipset emulation + match A500 speed is real: it's possible to set it up, but I don't see any difference with JIT on and OFF in CYCLE EXACT mode. IF I set JIT (on 68020) + match A500 speed, I get perfect sound & graphics in most chipset games, but they run smoother: if I set cycle exact along with JIT (on 68020) + match A500 speed, I see no different with JIT on and off, and that puzzles me as I don't know if the 68020 is running on JIT or not. Another little question: Is OpenAL a solution for lag-free sound lie ASIO? Or is it just a wrapper on DirectSound for system-independant audio? Thanks again! Last edited by Gaula92; 22 June 2009 at 12:44.

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22 June 2009, 11:31	#2
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,380	Toni will know for sure but I think the answers are : Yes. No. The whole point of cycle exact chipset emulation is accuracy. Something we are told you do not get with JIT. I thought that "cycle accurate" was limited to 68000 CPU and OCS/ECS chipset? JIT is intended for fast emulation of higher level CPU's mainly aimed at workbench level applications.

22 June 2009, 11:33	#3
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,695	Doesn't make much sense, but I guess you have '24-bit addressing' enabled and thus JIT is greyed out. So yes to your last question.

22 June 2009, 12:07	#4
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,532	JIT is full 68020+ only. (EC/24-bit address space not supported)

22 June 2009, 12:54	#7
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,532	68020 + cycle exact or A500 speed: unsupported. It may do something useful, it may break compatibility totally, it may do something else. It is guaranteed to be NOT cycle exact and has nothing to do with A500 cycle exact mode. It WILL change between versions. It is (bad) compatibility tweak mainly. OpenAL is another sound API. Some sound cards have native OpenAL, others emulate it via DirectSound. Less latency: use portaudio ASIO/WDM-KS/WASAPI (but portaudio can be buggy..) Native version won't happen because 1) ASIO has incompatible license (stupid ASIO), other modes are really complex to use.

22 June 2009, 13:08	#8
Gaula92 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 527	Thanks again, guys. I got it clearer now. I just hope I don't turn into a half-insect monster after playing with all those settings at the same time! I think I need more suggar....hmm..just a bit more in my coffe...

22 June 2009, 22:38	#9
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,619	I think he wants to speed up flight sims et al to max without getting timing issues vs blitter etc?

23 June 2009, 10:34	#10
Gaula92 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 527	yes, well, Ambermoon's pseudo 3d dungeons actually, but that's the idea

23 June 2009, 10:39	#11
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,695	What about warp mode (End + Pause)?

23 June 2009, 10:58	#12
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 6,863	That would make games pretty much unplayable.

23 June 2009, 13:41	#13
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,619	Warp is just skipping 'wait for next frame', right? And what he wants is CPU+Blitter that 'finish sooner'. And immediate blits give timing issues. He wants to speed things up because framerate is less than full. Gaula: should be possible to double the emulated framerate by syncing to 100 Hz, that will emulate two frames in 1/50 second. Maybe even possible to turn off sync (in WinUAE!) and go to a 50 Hz mode, if you can pull the slider to 100 fps. That will give you 100fps, but the difference from the synced is that it will look smoother. (The game's fps is lower than 50, so in a 100 Hz mode each frame will be displayed at least twice.)

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23 June 2009, 13:49	#14
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,532	What do you exactly want? Increase only CPU speed? Modify "emulated world" vs "real world" ratio? (FPS Adj. does that)