Was the CPC plus soundchip good?

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by Megol

Maybe you shouldn't be posting in a thread dedicated to a computer with that sound chip then? Or at least not complain about the sound chip repeatedly...

Any member can post his/hers opinion given that he/she doesn't break the rules. We operate within the scope of freedom of speech (and opinion) and within the notion that our freedom ends where the freedom of others begins (hence why no offensive speech is allowed). We often agree and disagree with each other. It's a fact of life. We should learn to deal with it. If you don't like someone's opinion, cool, but that person still has the right to have and to express it, as long as it's done within the rules.

Now off to discuss the CPC Plus, please.

[drHirudo]

Originally Posted by Akira

And that video is a fine example of the piece of shit sound you have to withstand if you own one of these (or any other machine with a similar PSG: Spectrum +2, SAM Coupe, Master System, MSX...)

The SAM Coupe has the best sound of all these and it's not the crappy AY. The SAM Coupe sound chip is even better than the C64 SID - Philips SAA1099. It was used in Sound Blaster 1.0 and has 6 channels. But since this is topic about CPC, I won't get into further detail.

[Megol]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

Any member can post his/hers opinion given that he/she doesn't break the rules. We operate within the scope of freedom of speech (and opinion) and within the notion that our freedom ends where the freedom of others begins (hence why no offensive speech is allowed). We often agree and disagree with each other. It's a fact of life. We should learn to deal with it. If you don't like someone's opinion, cool, but that person still has the right to have and to express it, as long as it's done within the rules.

It's about common courtesy.

Now off to discuss the CPC Plus, please.

Yeah.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Megol

It's about common courtesy.

Disagreeing with someone about something is against "common courtesy"? Man you must live a closeted life then.

I'll explain even though I don't have any obligation to and I have every right to say whatever I think (thanks PortuguesePilot): I was a GX4000 owner and user until recently and actually quite like the CPC and CPC+ computers, so that's why I follow this topic. That doesn't mean I have to like its soundchip or that I have to mince my words about it.

Last I understood this thread was not named "CPC Plus absolute fanboy and love thread, no angry reacts kthx".

I recommend you sincerely not to go around online forums trying to censor what people want to say.

[lilalurl]

Please resume the discussion about the soundchip now that the posts have been split from the "fanboy" thread.

[Megol]

Originally Posted by Akira

Disagreeing with someone about something is against "common courtesy"? Man you must live a closeted life then.

How you can get to that conclusion from what I posted is a mystery to me.

I will say^H^H^Hwrite this as simple as possible:

If someone (still with me?) don't like something (following?) then perhaps REPEATEDLY complaining about that something (??) IN a thread dedicated to something WITH that (to complicated yet?) is rather useless?

I'll explain even though I don't have any obligation to and I have every right to say whatever I think (thanks PortuguesePilot): I was a GX4000 owner and user until recently and actually quite like the CPC and CPC+ computers, so that's why I follow this topic. That doesn't mean I have to like its soundchip or that I have to mince my words about it.

...

Last I understood this thread was not named "CPC Plus absolute fanboy and love thread, no angry reacts kthx".

...

I recommend you sincerely not to go around online forums trying to censor what people want to say.

_WHERE_ HAVE I TRIED TO CENSOR YOU? A simple suggestion isn't censoring and have never been.

It is obvious you are an asshole _and_ an idiot. Osmium quality.

[frank_b]

Originally Posted by Megol

Maybe you shouldn't be posting in a thread dedicated to a computer with that sound chip then? Or at least not complain about the sound chip repeatedly...

This is what the YM2149 is capable of with a powerful CPU driving it.
[ Show youtube player ]
[ Show youtube player ]

SID voice is really cool.

I wonder if they could get the same out of the z80.

Games didn't sound like this back in the day!

[nobody]

Well it wasn't good but most 8bit were not either. Such as master system or NES. Awful sound at most cases. The same chip on the ST was a bit better because it used some samples here and there. I had a 1040STE and having an Amiga too what I hated the most was not sound but washed out colors and that awful scrolling. The sound had some kind of character.

[lilalurl]

Originally Posted by Megol

How you can get to that conclusion [...]

One of the reasons why I split the posts to this thread was for those personal fightings to stop.

So right now, I expect it will be so and that the discussion will remain on-topic.

Feel free to PM me if you disagree or want to complain about something.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Megol

It is obvious you are an asshole _and_ an idiot. Osmium quality.

Perhaps it is unknown to you that attacking forum members is against the rules.
So much for "common courtesy".

[DH]

Can we please get back on topic in this thread before it becomes another one of those "well that escalated pretty quickly" discussions or I'll have no choice but to lock the thread permanently

[Foebane]

I don't think the CPC/Plus soundchip was very good at all, but then I say that about all the systems that used the AY chip, as I call it.

However, it was on an AY chip (on an STFM) that let me hear relatively HQ sound samples for the first time, and my first tracker mods, even if they were mixed in software. As soon as I knew the Amiga could do it natively and with zero CPU overheads, I was sold on that platform.

I guess I just prefer samples to chip sounds.

[drHirudo]

Originally Posted by frank_b

This is what the YM2149 is capable of with a powerful CPU driving it.

SID voice is really cool.

I wonder if they could get the same out of the z80.

Games didn't sound like this back in the day!

With lots of CPU power even the 1-bit DAC PC speaker can do wonders. And the Amiga with the good old Paula can replay Second Reality demo music with ease. DigiBooster was doing real time 32 channel music with 68030 on Amiga 8-bit Paula. But the AY-3-8910 is a 1978 technology, that's it. Good fact is that it was widely popular, because it was ...cheap. I remember that you can upgrade 48K Spectrum with sound chip from Oric and today you can replay Atari ST music on Amstrad, Oric, Sinclair. These machines all sounded the same, which made them all boring. On the other hand the Amiga, C64 and even the Apple IIGS were totally different machines with unique sound capabilities, because of their unique sound chips.

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by nobody

(...) I had a 1040STE and having an Amiga too what I hated the most was not sound but washed out colors and that awful scrolling. The sound had some kind of character.

I have a 520STfm too and I think that where the ST significantly drags (literally) behind the Amiga is in the scrolling. The sound/music and sprites/colours are also worse on the ST but since I "graduated" from the Spectrum and CGA PC's, the ST's graphics are quite OK and the music, as I said before, has some chiptune charm to it. But the scrolling... ew. Especially horizontally scrolling games, which are the vast majority of titles. My 520STfm - like the original ST - has no blitter, though. Blittered STs seem to be much better at scrolling graphics on the screen, though very few games on the ST were made to actually use the blitter that the latest STs had.

I understand the scrolling was also the CPC's Achilles heel as well. Scrolling is vital for gameplay. More so than graphics and sound, IMO.

Even the Amiga - that was much better than the ST and CPC in the scrolling department - had relatively poor scrolling abilities, hence why contemporaneous console games (MegaDrive, SNES and even PC-Engine) usually had more fluent games, which usually made them more fun to play.

[robinsonb5]

Originally Posted by Foebane

However, it was on an AY chip (on an STFM) that let me hear relatively HQ sound samples for the first time, and my first tracker mods, even if they were mixed in software. As soon as I knew the Amiga could do it natively and with zero CPU overheads, I was sold on that platform.

So wasn't dlfrsilver's point that the CPC+ can do just that - i.e. replay PCM sounds via DMA? I'm assuming the sound on that Shadow of the Beast demo was coming from a CPC+ as well as the visuals? (I haven't found any other (good sounding) examples, but I think that's got more to do with the amount of memory available than the limitations of the chip.)

[Estrayk]

Originally Posted by drHirudo

With lots of CPU power even the 1-bit DAC PC speaker can do wonders. And the Amiga with the good old Paula can replay Second Reality demo music with ease. DigiBooster was doing real time 32 channel music with 68030 on Amiga 8-bit Paula.

dr.Hirudo is right. Listen a Paula from 1985 with CPU power:
[ Show youtube player ]

Audio captured from a real Amiga 600.

[Shatterhand]

[ Show youtube player ]

This MSX game is using the AY-3-8910 to play samples and it had just a Z80. Jump to 1:54 to see it. The quality is not that good, but it's doing it.

Or this one, at 3:57

[ Show youtube player ]

And while the video is showing the game playing music through the FM chip, I can guarantee the sample is played by the PSG, as my MSX has no FM chip but I hear the same voice on it

[Megol]

I want to apologize for the unnecessary insults posted earlier.
One shouldn't reply in kind even when someone throws one of the worst insults possible in ones face.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by drHirudo

the Amiga way with on the fly mixing, where the stock Amiga 500 was able to do only 8 channels, with TFMX.

TFMX software mixing is 7 channels not 8. You're thinking OctoMED

[drHirudo]

Originally Posted by alexh

TFMX software mixing is 7 channels not 8. You're thinking OctoMED

Yes, I also remember TFMX being 7 channels, but then I looked into this screenshot
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFMX#/...-Trackstep.png
And there are 8 channels.