Unbelievable

Malc · 25 June 2001, 23:50

I do not fucking believe this!!

Thanks to IanCharge for the detective work, Emu-China have stolen all of ALEs game pages and images while slightly modifying them

http://roms.emuchina.net/amiga/amiga_a.htm

Jesus christ what is this world coming too....an Anti-Leech script is going up soon, sorry guys but this is way over the line.

I suggest we all e-mail Emu-China to show them they can't do that shit.

MethodGit · 26 June 2001, 09:46

It's funny, though, how they grab all your PD games (since there ain't a single copyright attached to them) but refrain from storing any of the commercial games you worked your ass off to obtain permission for (Embryo, Rainbow Islands, Fire & Ice, etc., you know the drill) on their site.

I seriously hope an anti-leech script won't affect my enjoyment of browsing your site. And what if it's being put on the *whole* server, therefore affecting the hosted sites as well?

Also, where/what is the guarantee that this script is going to completely solve the problem?

icycool · 26 June 2001, 09:50

Speaking of modified images, TOSEC has a number of (ALE) tagged ones, now i'm sure the images did not originally come like this, and i 100% do not agree with anyone modifying original/released images created by other people.

Malc · 26 June 2001, 16:34

The Anti-Leech script will *probably* be enforced by me and will only affect ALE. My main worry is that programs such as FlashGet (a download tool) can bypass such scripts and give full access to the actual URL of the file you are protecting (not good).

I'm waiting for a new release of an Anti-Leech script which will prevent FlashGet for grabbing the URL and be totally invisible to the user (no click here to continue download etc).

On another subject:

TOSEC? whats the URL for that one?

Another emulation site should be announced sometime this week by myself so keep an eye on ALE and the usual emulation sites for updates. It's not directly to do with the Commodore range of machines but does come from the same era of gaming and is something I haven't yet covered

IanCharge knows the score

RCK · 26 June 2001, 16:41

http://tosec.retrogames.com

Amiga1992 · 26 June 2001, 17:41

Can I blow the surprise, Malc? I think it might have to do with the machine I recently acquired

I don't get onto all this 'you got my disks, no you got mine!' conversations... everybody knows they are too dubious.We are all stealing everybody, if we think this way. At least tehy did not get your permissions, they just nabbed teh PD games, which are free to take, methinks, and when people boot it they will see a link to your site, so you are kind of credited (I doubt such lazy gits know what a startup-sequence is, or how to change it).

If you dont want your images floating around just don't distribute them. That reminds me, mi cherished copy of Pirates is floating around... Did you get that one, Icy? It came from my original. If not, I'll send it to you. i gave it to Sane, and I rather have you getting it than that godflesh 'ard...

Ian · 26 June 2001, 17:59

Let's say I leeched you entire site, changed the name on it to mine, and then uploaed it to some web space, from what you just said you wouldn't care ...... I think you would be plenty pissed.

Beneath a Steel Sky was a commercial game as far as I'm aware (Seeing as I paid for it) that's at their site!

And I don't think it just the fact that they've took his collection of games, the fact they have basically copied the Game section of his site, games, pictures and descriptions, might be reason he's, rightly, P'od.

I remember a couple of weeks ago that you said that people who leech another person's stuff are crapheads. Are you friends with someone who runs Emu-China or have you one rule for one and a different rule for other's??

Hipocracy is not big or clever.

icycool · 26 June 2001, 18:21

Lol, no I didn't get your copy of pirates... but what I was stating before seems to have gone totally unnoticed...

Regarding tagging disks with URL's, distro messages or other forms of advertisement on images you did not create/make is quite possibly the lamest thing happening in the amiga scene at this moment. TOSEC continually strive for redumps of vandalised images, images that have been modified by ALE, BTTR and probably other little groups out there. What it means in the long run, is ppl checking 10 copies of 1 disk, looking for a copy that doesn't say 'Fucked-up by Blah Blah'..
If you didn't design the image, you have no rights to alter it, and any attempt to do so is merely an excercise in self-importance and ego boosting.

TOSEC is here to clean up all the images out there, while certain people just want to tag things that go past them to create a name for themselves on the scene.

Its all about preservation of original media, not quantity of tags..
Do places like Amiga Redump Project exist for the fun of it??, I think not.

CodyJarrett · 26 June 2001, 18:31

I agree. We are talking about two levels of copying here.

We are all guilty of copying and spreading copyrighted material. I don't think it is right to put a text file on a disk or in an archive saying that it was downloaded from such and such website and that if it was downloaded somewhere else, then that person is a thief. That's hypocrisy.

But in this case, EmuChina have used Malc-ALE's hard work on their own site without any mention of him. They just took all his screenshots and info, which is wrong.

However, I don't think that protecting the website with anti-leech protection is the answer, as EmuChina already have most of the files now. It also annoys me that websites have such measures, when the files do not 'belong' to them in the first place.

icycool · 26 June 2001, 18:41

Yes, I do not agree with website theft, and its a shame it happened, someone taking Malc's work, copying it to thier site and making people assume its their own..
Now i see an interesting parallel here with tagging disks.. ;-)

Amiga1992 · 26 June 2001, 19:44

IanCharge, yep you are right (you wanted me to say that eh? :P) My post sounds hypocritical. No I have no friends at emuchina.

This seems to be a common behaviour from chinese sites. One chinese site bastard stole quite a few of my old design Shmups page and made them his own. Anyway, you are straightly mentioning about the bit I said about Godflesh mirroring the Dreamzone's file archive, which I thought was wrong. Godflesh perhaps was a bit stupid for saying ' hey, ive leeched the whole DZ archive, and you can leech it from my FTP'. At least he was honest there :P These guys call it as their own. and at no place I said that it was okay, perhaps I should have said so.I just wanted to avoid teh subject, to not get onto this. Of course, I failed :P

I didn't get onto the htML bit. malc surely have to be pissed off at that, just like I got pissed off when I saw my pages in a chinese guy's page, and just how anyone would be pissed off when you see your site layout being ripped off and used without, at least, any permission asked or credit given. It's your hard work and it shouldnt be copied. Thats why we all have copyrigh notices as footnotes.

I think that even if malc emails them, they wont give a shite.

Oh well, should have refined that post, nobody is perfect, and I'm wrong, despite what Ian thinks.

Icy: I'll get to you about some of my original disks. And about an Amiga redump project.... I agree with such a project.... As a matter of fact, I tried to start one, but never went ahead. Anybody interested in starting such a thing? I want clean Amiga disks! I can pass over my design and whatever Ive done to the (never released) site.

icycool · 26 June 2001, 20:15

Akira, the guy who runs ARP is usually in #amigatronic, he is still waiting for me to code a decent raw disk ripper..and i will do it, i just keep getting sidetracked. :hooooo As for my bitching before, u have no idea how many alt/modified/whatver disks are in tosec, and it sucks to see people making more of them. I have dumped a few thousand amy disks, and u won't see my name plastered on any of them, letalone credits mentioned anywhere. The community owns the software, not one person who decides to dump a few disks, especially PD disks.

Amiga1992 · 26 June 2001, 20:33

Maybe I could join him... I didnt see the URL, since you didnt post it. Perhaps we are not supposed to flood it with visits

Anyway, I've got stuff that could be dumped, but more stuff taht is original and cannot. Codetapper has managed to create an ADF out of an original, by peeking inside factor 5's ADFs... That surely would be helpful to do.

Ian · 26 June 2001, 20:40

HERES the url Akira it's listed with Google so they don't want it kept a secret

.

If you have a lot of originals you should be able to help 'em.

icycool · 26 June 2001, 20:41

ARP is kinda on hold till i get this proggy done... there were a few probs with some 'redumps' i noticed, including some X-COPY tracks..which is a worry, anyway the ripper i will code will digitise the disk perfectly, and if the emu's support the format, they will be as original copies. I have the adf extended format around here somewhere, its ok, but should be a little more accurate. As soon as i get my A4000 backed up, I will start on this project..its just a matter of booting to winME

coz am2pc doesn't like W2k

Amiga1992 · 26 June 2001, 22:27

yay, EXCELLENT, thanks for the URL Ian...

This sounds ust like teh project I Wanted to start. Well, my project was a mix of ARP and Andy's Amiga Rarities (providin games which are not to befound anywhere). Since there are two sites which seem to do a pretty nifty job already, I rather forget about the idea and contribute

I loved Coverdisks too, and then MrDig's site came (i'll be contributing to it soon...)

Long life CLEAN images!!! BTW if someone dumps an ORIGINAL R-Type 2, I have a broken original which is waiting to be fixed (hint hint

. I suppose I'll have to wait until original games can be dumped (And I suppose you'll be able to put them back onto disks, as well?).

Amiga1992 · 26 June 2001, 22:29

By the way, I have my Kickstart file dumped... if I want to check if the one floating around is the same one that is inside my beloved computer... how do I do it? Checksums should be the same? Or what?

I didn't tag it, of course. Unadultered is the way it must be

It's a 2.05 ROM, came in my A600HD. I am not sure if I gave this image to anyone (except a mate of mine who is such a greedy person that I know he didnt give it to anyone

[edit] Just checked my ROM image... It's a 37.300 (it says '2.0 Roms (37.300)', I'm sure it's 2.05, perhaps all 2.05 say 2.0 Roms

)... Do yuo think they might need it? And I tried to download a 2.05 ROM to compare it to mine... however it seems they don't host files for download.

Malc · 26 June 2001, 23:34

Just to clear something up:

The "tagged" images at ALE are ones that have been created from scratch, we do not plaster the URL of the site on commercial games or indeed many/most of the PD games and demos at ALE.

The only reason self-made ADFs are tagged is so that leechers have to go through the trouble of removing the stuff before uploading, it works too. Most "emulation" people have no idea about the Amiga and simply want to play games for a machine they probably never owned, therfore removal of such tagging is a little tough.

Anyway, Emu-China can kiss my ass. ALE rocks and that's that

Well I think it does

Ian · 26 June 2001, 23:52

Putting tags on ADF's you personally compile yourself is perfectly alright in my book

For instance that Disc-Salv disk you did, many freely available programs (On many disks) put onto on to a single ADF.

Surely taging disk like that is fine?

icycool · 26 June 2001, 23:55

Hehe, you made this image from scratch?
Amiga Power - Issue 14 - Coverdisk 14 - Bonus Disk (Jun 1992)(Future Publishing)(UK)[h ALE]
Do you like TOSEC's renaming convention

Removed screenshot

25 June 2001, 23:50	#1
Malc Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: UK Age: 45 Posts: 117	Unbelievable I do not fucking believe this!! Thanks to IanCharge for the detective work, Emu-China have stolen all of ALEs game pages and images while slightly modifying them http://roms.emuchina.net/amiga/amiga_a.htm Jesus christ what is this world coming too....an Anti-Leech script is going up soon, sorry guys but this is way over the line. I suggest we all e-mail Emu-China to show them they can't do that shit.

26 June 2001, 09:46	#2
MethodGit Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Streets Age: 40 Posts: 2,731	Ouch. Dude, I see what you mean It's funny, though, how they grab all your PD games (since there ain't a single copyright attached to them) but refrain from storing any of the commercial games you worked your ass off to obtain permission for (Embryo, Rainbow Islands, Fire & Ice, etc., you know the drill) on their site. I seriously hope an anti-leech script won't affect my enjoyment of browsing your site. And what if it's being put on the whole server, therefore affecting the hosted sites as well? Also, where/what is the guarantee that this script is going to completely solve the problem?

26 June 2001, 17:59	#7
Ian Global Moderator Join Date: May 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 46 Posts: 2,299	Akira Let's say I leeched you entire site, changed the name on it to mine, and then uploaed it to some web space, from what you just said you wouldn't care ...... I think you would be plenty pissed. Beneath a Steel Sky was a commercial game as far as I'm aware (Seeing as I paid for it) that's at their site! And I don't think it just the fact that they've took his collection of games, the fact they have basically copied the Game section of his site, games, pictures and descriptions, might be reason he's, rightly, P'od. I remember a couple of weeks ago that you said that people who leech another person's stuff are crapheads. Are you friends with someone who runs Emu-China or have you one rule for one and a different rule for other's?? Hipocracy is not big or clever.

26 June 2001, 18:31	#9
CodyJarrett Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: UK Age: 46 Posts: 6,166	Copyright I agree. We are talking about two levels of copying here. We are all guilty of copying and spreading copyrighted material. I don't think it is right to put a text file on a disk or in an archive saying that it was downloaded from such and such website and that if it was downloaded somewhere else, then that person is a thief. That's hypocrisy. But in this case, EmuChina have used Malc-ALE's hard work on their own site without any mention of him. They just took all his screenshots and info, which is wrong. However, I don't think that protecting the website with anti-leech protection is the answer, as EmuChina already have most of the files now. It also annoys me that websites have such measures, when the files do not 'belong' to them in the first place.

26 June 2001, 20:40	#14
Ian Global Moderator Join Date: May 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 46 Posts: 2,299	HERES the url Akira it's listed with Google so they don't want it kept a secret. If you have a lot of originals you should be able to help 'em.

26 June 2001, 09:50	#3
icycool Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne/Australia Age: 50 Posts: 203	Speaking of modified images, TOSEC has a number of (ALE) tagged ones, now i'm sure the images did not originally come like this, and i 100% do not agree with anyone modifying original/released images created by other people.

26 June 2001, 16:34	#4
Malc Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: UK Age: 45 Posts: 117	The Anti-Leech script will probably be enforced by me and will only affect ALE. My main worry is that programs such as FlashGet (a download tool) can bypass such scripts and give full access to the actual URL of the file you are protecting (not good). I'm waiting for a new release of an Anti-Leech script which will prevent FlashGet for grabbing the URL and be totally invisible to the user (no click here to continue download etc). On another subject: TOSEC? whats the URL for that one? Another emulation site should be announced sometime this week by myself so keep an eye on ALE and the usual emulation sites for updates. It's not directly to do with the Commodore range of machines but does come from the same era of gaming and is something I haven't yet covered IanCharge knows the score

26 June 2001, 16:41	#5
RCK Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Paris / France Age: 45 Posts: 3,096	http://tosec.retrogames.com

26 June 2001, 17:41	#6
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,648	Can I blow the surprise, Malc? I think it might have to do with the machine I recently acquired I don't get onto all this 'you got my disks, no you got mine!' conversations... everybody knows they are too dubious.We are all stealing everybody, if we think this way. At least tehy did not get your permissions, they just nabbed teh PD games, which are free to take, methinks, and when people boot it they will see a link to your site, so you are kind of credited (I doubt such lazy gits know what a startup-sequence is, or how to change it). If you dont want your images floating around just don't distribute them. That reminds me, mi cherished copy of Pirates is floating around... Did you get that one, Icy? It came from my original. If not, I'll send it to you. i gave it to Sane, and I rather have you getting it than that godflesh 'ard...

26 June 2001, 18:21	#8
icycool Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne/Australia Age: 50 Posts: 203	Lol, no I didn't get your copy of pirates... but what I was stating before seems to have gone totally unnoticed... Regarding tagging disks with URL's, distro messages or other forms of advertisement on images you did not create/make is quite possibly the lamest thing happening in the amiga scene at this moment. TOSEC continually strive for redumps of vandalised images, images that have been modified by ALE, BTTR and probably other little groups out there. What it means in the long run, is ppl checking 10 copies of 1 disk, looking for a copy that doesn't say 'Fucked-up by Blah Blah'.. If you didn't design the image, you have no rights to alter it, and any attempt to do so is merely an excercise in self-importance and ego boosting. TOSEC is here to clean up all the images out there, while certain people just want to tag things that go past them to create a name for themselves on the scene. Its all about preservation of original media, not quantity of tags.. Do places like Amiga Redump Project exist for the fun of it??, I think not.

26 June 2001, 18:41	#10
icycool Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne/Australia Age: 50 Posts: 203	Yes, I do not agree with website theft, and its a shame it happened, someone taking Malc's work, copying it to thier site and making people assume its their own.. Now i see an interesting parallel here with tagging disks.. ;-)

26 June 2001, 19:44	#11
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,648	IanCharge, yep you are right (you wanted me to say that eh? :P) My post sounds hypocritical. No I have no friends at emuchina. This seems to be a common behaviour from chinese sites. One chinese site bastard stole quite a few of my old design Shmups page and made them his own. Anyway, you are straightly mentioning about the bit I said about Godflesh mirroring the Dreamzone's file archive, which I thought was wrong. Godflesh perhaps was a bit stupid for saying ' hey, ive leeched the whole DZ archive, and you can leech it from my FTP'. At least he was honest there :P These guys call it as their own. and at no place I said that it was okay, perhaps I should have said so.I just wanted to avoid teh subject, to not get onto this. Of course, I failed :P I didn't get onto the htML bit. malc surely have to be pissed off at that, just like I got pissed off when I saw my pages in a chinese guy's page, and just how anyone would be pissed off when you see your site layout being ripped off and used without, at least, any permission asked or credit given. It's your hard work and it shouldnt be copied. Thats why we all have copyrigh notices as footnotes. I think that even if malc emails them, they wont give a shite. Oh well, should have refined that post, nobody is perfect, and I'm wrong, despite what Ian thinks. Icy: I'll get to you about some of my original disks. And about an Amiga redump project.... I agree with such a project.... As a matter of fact, I tried to start one, but never went ahead. Anybody interested in starting such a thing? I want clean Amiga disks! I can pass over my design and whatever Ive done to the (never released) site.

26 June 2001, 20:15	#12
icycool Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne/Australia Age: 50 Posts: 203	Akira, the guy who runs ARP is usually in #amigatronic, he is still waiting for me to code a decent raw disk ripper..and i will do it, i just keep getting sidetracked. :hooooo As for my bitching before, u have no idea how many alt/modified/whatver disks are in tosec, and it sucks to see people making more of them. I have dumped a few thousand amy disks, and u won't see my name plastered on any of them, letalone credits mentioned anywhere. The community owns the software, not one person who decides to dump a few disks, especially PD disks.

26 June 2001, 20:33	#13
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,648	Maybe I could join him... I didnt see the URL, since you didnt post it. Perhaps we are not supposed to flood it with visits Anyway, I've got stuff that could be dumped, but more stuff taht is original and cannot. Codetapper has managed to create an ADF out of an original, by peeking inside factor 5's ADFs... That surely would be helpful to do.

26 June 2001, 20:41	#15
icycool Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne/Australia Age: 50 Posts: 203	ARP is kinda on hold till i get this proggy done... there were a few probs with some 'redumps' i noticed, including some X-COPY tracks..which is a worry, anyway the ripper i will code will digitise the disk perfectly, and if the emu's support the format, they will be as original copies. I have the adf extended format around here somewhere, its ok, but should be a little more accurate. As soon as i get my A4000 backed up, I will start on this project..its just a matter of booting to winME coz am2pc doesn't like W2k

26 June 2001, 22:27	#16
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,648	yay, EXCELLENT, thanks for the URL Ian... This sounds ust like teh project I Wanted to start. Well, my project was a mix of ARP and Andy's Amiga Rarities (providin games which are not to befound anywhere). Since there are two sites which seem to do a pretty nifty job already, I rather forget about the idea and contribute I loved Coverdisks too, and then MrDig's site came (i'll be contributing to it soon...) Long life CLEAN images!!! BTW if someone dumps an ORIGINAL R-Type 2, I have a broken original which is waiting to be fixed (hint hint . I suppose I'll have to wait until original games can be dumped (And I suppose you'll be able to put them back onto disks, as well?).

26 June 2001, 22:29	#17
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,648	By the way, I have my Kickstart file dumped... if I want to check if the one floating around is the same one that is inside my beloved computer... how do I do it? Checksums should be the same? Or what? I didn't tag it, of course. Unadultered is the way it must be It's a 2.05 ROM, came in my A600HD. I am not sure if I gave this image to anyone (except a mate of mine who is such a greedy person that I know he didnt give it to anyone [edit] Just checked my ROM image... It's a 37.300 (it says '2.0 Roms (37.300)', I'm sure it's 2.05, perhaps all 2.05 say 2.0 Roms )... Do yuo think they might need it? And I tried to download a 2.05 ROM to compare it to mine... however it seems they don't host files for download. Last edited by Amiga1992; 26 June 2001 at 22:37.

26 June 2001, 23:34	#18
Malc Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: UK Age: 45 Posts: 117	Just to clear something up: The "tagged" images at ALE are ones that have been created from scratch, we do not plaster the URL of the site on commercial games or indeed many/most of the PD games and demos at ALE. The only reason self-made ADFs are tagged is so that leechers have to go through the trouble of removing the stuff before uploading, it works too. Most "emulation" people have no idea about the Amiga and simply want to play games for a machine they probably never owned, therfore removal of such tagging is a little tough. Anyway, Emu-China can kiss my ass. ALE rocks and that's that Well I think it does

26 June 2001, 23:52	#19
Ian Global Moderator Join Date: May 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 46 Posts: 2,299	Putting tags on ADF's you personally compile yourself is perfectly alright in my book For instance that Disc-Salv disk you did, many freely available programs (On many disks) put onto on to a single ADF. Surely taging disk like that is fine?

26 June 2001, 23:55	#20
icycool Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne/Australia Age: 50 Posts: 203	Hehe, you made this image from scratch? Amiga Power - Issue 14 - Coverdisk 14 - Bonus Disk (Jun 1992)(Future Publishing)(UK)[h ALE] Do you like TOSEC's renaming convention Removed screenshot Last edited by Ian; 20 October 2001 at 14:25.

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