James Pond 3 - worst Sonic clone? - Page 2

Gernot66 · 24 August 2022, 13:34

Interesting statement... and Sonic is what? A jump&run game, what is so special about it except that you jump & run through it?
but perhaps i'm just to old to judge this.

I guess that's a matter of choice, me i liked Zool2 it's a fast game perhaps a little to easy for some, the soundtrack is more as just listenable and it stays in my Music folder on any machine. I didn't played any of the James Pond games often but they are good and had a strong fanbase i guess.
To be honest from my ward they quite differ, "Sonic" you have to run through to play well but as i remember both "James Pond" and "Zool" you can't simply run at full speed through all.

Rightfully one could say "Sonic" (Jamed Pond, Zool, etc) is a "Mario" cast and "Mario" is a "Pitfall" cast.

I liked the SEGA games but i'm not a fanboy of any brand.
Matter of choice - Let's play Pong
Or tennis for two?
"Yer Out!"

I guess i will play "Voochko on thin ice"
(which is in the very end a Quix cast)

gimbal · 24 August 2022, 21:07

What is special about Sonic: it was the Sega mascot, still kinda is. Timeless design too, it'll forever be popular with kids and kids who became adults.

Megalomaniac · 04 October 2022, 11:10

Wasn't James Pond 3 released (with good reviews) on the Megadrive before the Amiga (A1200 only, not that it looked like it) though?

rothers · 04 October 2022, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimbal

What is special about Sonic: it was the Sega mascot, still kinda is. Timeless design too, it'll forever be popular with kids and kids who became adults.

Having Green Hill Zone as the first level is what made that game a huge success. It's the perfect balance and introduces you to the game well.

Marble Zone being next was a weird choice, the level is slow and boring.

In the dumped pre-release it was starlight zone which was second I think which is more speed and fun.

Robocod is original, the stretch mechanism and only needing one button is very clever. Never felt at the time it was a mario clone.

Anubis · 04 October 2022, 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gernot66

Interesting statement... and Sonic is what? A jump&run game, what is so special about it except that you jump & run through it?
but perhaps i'm just to old to judge this.

I guess that's a matter of choice, me i liked Zool2 it's a fast game perhaps a little to easy for some, the soundtrack is more as just listenable and it stays in my Music folder on any machine. I didn't played any of the James Pond games often but they are good and had a strong fanbase i guess.
To be honest from my ward they quite differ, "Sonic" you have to run through to play well but as i remember both "James Pond" and "Zool" you can't simply run at full speed through all.

Rightfully one could say "Sonic" (Jamed Pond, Zool, etc) is a "Mario" cast and "Mario" is a "Pitfall" cast.

I liked the SEGA games but i'm not a fanboy of any brand.
Matter of choice - Let's play Pong
Or tennis for two?
"Yer Out!"

I guess i will play "Voochko on thin ice"
(which is in the very end a Quix cast)

WTF, how did you get vucko mixed into all this??

It was mascot for Winter Olympic Games in 1984 that were held in Bosnia. (then Yugoslavia)

TCD · 04 October 2022, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by rothers

Robocod is original, the stretch mechanism and only needing one button is very clever. Never felt at the time it was a mario clone.

I always felt the same way about Robocod. Hardly any platformer ever broke with the 'run and jump' formula of getting through a level. Yet Robocod did and it felt pretty good.

gimbal · 05 October 2022, 02:12

Not forgetting the vehicles too, not many games did that.

grelbfarlk · 05 October 2022, 03:37

First of all James Pond is a member of the secret service. Sonic is a mutant hedgehog who has gotta go fast. Now James Pond tries to go fast just to protect the free world for the sake of the sea for expediency. His different missions require different loadouts and Sonic well, he just goesfast.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

sokolovic · 29 November 2022, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by kremiso

aga non aga?

the previous chapter seems more colorful (the first too!), and it runs on ocs
what happened?

Totally non AGA. The latest WHD version removed AGA and 68020 restrictions. The game just need 2Mb chip ram to run on any Amigahttp://whdload.de/games/JamesPond3.html.

How ridiculous was the final statement in the One review saying that making a non AGA version was simply impossible. They were precisely testing an ECS game which seemed evident once you knew that releasing fake AGA games was a things back in these days.

TCD · 29 November 2022, 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Totally non AGA. The latest WHD version removed AGA and 68020 restrictions. The game just need 2Mb chip ram to run on any Amigahttp://whdload.de/games/JamesPond3.html.

Interesting. Using IPFs the game seems to have an AGA check in place as starting it with a non AGA chipset the game refuses to boot. Maybe jotd can say a bit more about so I could add the info to HOL (and change the AGA chipset info...).

Megalomaniac · 29 November 2022, 11:31

You can understand why they sold it as A1200 only though, as it inherently made people expect better graphics - how many non-AGA Amigas had 2Mb of Chip memory, and how many of the people who did have 2Mb Chip RAM but no AGA ever bought cute platform games? Plus then you've got the challenge of communicating on the box (of a game aimed at younger players) as to which Amigas can actually run the game? Presumably the size of the levels meant that 1Mb of memory wasn't going to be adequate?

gimbal · 29 November 2022, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

Plus then you've got the challenge of communicating on the box (of a game aimed at younger players) as to which Amigas can actually run the game?

I'm pretty sure this was a pretty big driver, yes. You don't want to talk about specs, you just want to put a NES, SNES, Megadrive, etc. label on it so people don't need to think. "A1200" was that label.

TCD · 29 November 2022, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

Plus then you've got the challenge of communicating on the box (of a game aimed at younger players) as to which Amigas can actually run the game?

That part makes sense, but blocking Amigas that could run the game by checking for AGA (at least it seems like that's what the game does) and blocking the game from running is... interesting

I don't know why they might have done it, but I'm pretty sure they knew that the game didn't require AGA to work.

gimbal · 29 November 2022, 11:53

Blame I guess. If you buy and try to boot the game on an unsupported machine, that's your own goof.

sokolovic · 29 November 2022, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimbal

I'm pretty sure this was a pretty big driver, yes. You don't want to talk about specs, you just want to put a NES, SNES, Megadrive, etc. label on it so people don't need to think. "A1200" was that label.

They were releasing 1MB only games with no problem... Maybe the thing was recquiring 2MB of Chip RAM...

Reynolds · 29 November 2022, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Totally non AGA. The latest WHD version removed AGA and 68020 restrictions. The game just need 2Mb chip ram to run on any Amigahttp://whdload.de/games/JamesPond3.html.

How ridiculous was the final statement in the One review saying that making a non AGA version was simply impossible. They were precisely testing an ECS game which seemed evident once you knew that releasing fake AGA games was a things back in these days.

Wonder if Aladdin could be also non-AGA release? it has 64 colours IIRC, so more likely an EHB gfx than anything that pushes it towards to be an AGA title... It could have been disappointing if the game shouldn't look that good, but still, we have better gfx in some ECS games (Lionheart, Kid Chaos, Robocod, Traps & Treasures, Ruff 'n' Tumble, etc.)

alexh · 29 November 2022, 12:19

Such a shame that they didn't do an AGA dual playfield version with the backgrounds as in the SNES/MD versions. Especially for the CD32 version.

sokolovic · 29 November 2022, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynolds

Wonder if Aladdin could be also non-AGA release? it has 64 colours IIRC, so more likely an EHB gfx than anything that pushes it towards to be an AGA title... It could have been disappointing if the game shouldn't look that good, but still, we have better gfx in some ECS games (Lionheart, Kid Chaos, Robocod, Traps & Treasures, Ruff 'n' Tumble, etc.)

I think Aladdin use the larger AGA sprites. And 64colors AGA isn't EHB mode so I'm not sure it is exactly the same thing.

Reynolds · 29 November 2022, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokolovic

I think Aladdin use the larger AGA sprites. And 64colors AGA isn't EHB mode so I'm not sure it is exactly the same thing.

Don't know spritesize-wise, but was thinking the same regrding the colourdepth AGA vs EHB ECS... But it would have been so good if a game like this can be played on nonAGA configs... I mean way back... but that train has long gone I believe.

dlfrsilver · 29 November 2022, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokolovic

I think Aladdin use the larger AGA sprites. And 64colors AGA isn't EHB mode so I'm not sure it is exactly the same thing.

There is another aspect : the CPU clocking. Some parts of JP3 are running very fast, and i guess this is due to CPU clocked at 14mhz instead of 7mhz.

With an A500 or A600 with 2mb of chip, you should have terrible slowdowns.

24 August 2022, 13:34	#21
Gernot66 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Switzerland Age: 57 Posts: 11	Interesting statement... and Sonic is what? A jump&run game, what is so special about it except that you jump & run through it? but perhaps i'm just to old to judge this. I guess that's a matter of choice, me i liked Zool2 it's a fast game perhaps a little to easy for some, the soundtrack is more as just listenable and it stays in my Music folder on any machine. I didn't played any of the James Pond games often but they are good and had a strong fanbase i guess. To be honest from my ward they quite differ, "Sonic" you have to run through to play well but as i remember both "James Pond" and "Zool" you can't simply run at full speed through all. Rightfully one could say "Sonic" (Jamed Pond, Zool, etc) is a "Mario" cast and "Mario" is a "Pitfall" cast. I liked the SEGA games but i'm not a fanboy of any brand. Matter of choice - Let's play Pong Or tennis for two? "Yer Out!" I guess i will play "Voochko on thin ice" (which is in the very end a Quix cast) Last edited by Gernot66; 24 August 2022 at 14:00. Reason: added "Vucko" img

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24 August 2022, 21:07	#22
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,903	What is special about Sonic: it was the Sega mascot, still kinda is. Timeless design too, it'll forever be popular with kids and kids who became adults.

04 October 2022, 11:10	#23
Megalomaniac Registered User Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Eastbourne Posts: 995	Wasn't James Pond 3 released (with good reviews) on the Megadrive before the Amiga (A1200 only, not that it looked like it) though?

05 October 2022, 02:12	#27
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,903	Not forgetting the vehicles too, not many games did that.

05 October 2022, 03:37	#28
grelbfarlk Registered User Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: USA Posts: 2,902	First of all James Pond is a member of the secret service. Sonic is a mutant hedgehog who has gotta go fast. Now James Pond tries to go fast just to protect the free world for the sake of the sea for expediency. His different missions require different loadouts and Sonic well, he just goesfast. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

29 November 2022, 11:31	#31
Megalomaniac Registered User Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Eastbourne Posts: 995	You can understand why they sold it as A1200 only though, as it inherently made people expect better graphics - how many non-AGA Amigas had 2Mb of Chip memory, and how many of the people who did have 2Mb Chip RAM but no AGA ever bought cute platform games? Plus then you've got the challenge of communicating on the box (of a game aimed at younger players) as to which Amigas can actually run the game? Presumably the size of the levels meant that 1Mb of memory wasn't going to be adequate?

29 November 2022, 11:53	#34
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,903	Blame I guess. If you buy and try to boot the game on an unsupported machine, that's your own goof.

29 November 2022, 12:19	#37
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,331	Such a shame that they didn't do an AGA dual playfield version with the backgrounds as in the SNES/MD versions. Especially for the CD32 version.

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