Aladdin AGA crashes instantly on clean ADFs

[MethodGit]

I've noticed that if you attempt to run an unedited ADF of Disk 1 after converting the set from IPF, it doesn't even get round to loading a smidgen of data before showing funny colours and freezing up. Why is this?

As far as I know this game has manual protection rather than a copylock. Is the game just built in a very weird way?

[StingRay]

What do you think it could be? You copy an original game and the copy doesn't work. Yes, right, a copy protection! The game is not built in any "weird" way, it just has a copy-protection. The disks appear to be normal DOS disks but there is info stored which will be lost once you convert them to normal images which is the protection. Thus your copy crashes.

[MethodGit]

It can't be as simple as copy protection though.

What I mean is that when you start up the system and it detects the existence of the disk, it goes kablooie there and then. Doesn't even try to load the game for at least a few seconds. It's almost as if it disagrees with the bootblock somehow, even though I hadn't changed a single thing about the image.

I just tried writing it to a custom ADF and the same thing still happens, so it must not be a longtrack/special-track issue either. At this moment in time, only the IPF original will not spazz out within the first split-second of acknowledging a disk in the drive.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by MethodGit

It can't be as simple as copy protection though.

What I mean is that when you start up the system and it detects the existence of the disk, it goes kablooie there and then. Doesn't even try to load the game for at least a few seconds. It's almost as if it disagrees with the bootblock somehow, even though I hadn't changed a single thing about the image.

I just tried writing it to a custom ADF and the same thing still happens, so it must not be a longtrack/special-track issue either. At this moment in time, only the IPF original will not spazz out within the first split-second of acknowledging a disk in the drive.

It is EXACTLY as Stingray describes.

Whilst the disk format is AmigaDOS, there has been a special application to the format that can't be copied and isn't detected by a normal DOS copy mode.

The very first thing the Aladdin disk loader does is to do a disk check to ensure the right disk is in the drive, hence why it goes nuts immediately.

Seeing as the bootblock and loader to get the game going are all on the first track, is why it appears to fail immediately on loading the bootblock, when in fact its the custom loader thats failed.

This protection is also used by the custom loader to determine which disk is in which drive.

Considering I did the Aladdin AGA BETA crack for DCS (under the handle of Lisa Sweetcorn... don't ask!), I know how the format works.

The only way you'll be able to bypass it is to do as I did and either replace the loader with another sector AmigaDOS loader, or to modify the existing loader to check to ensure that the correct disk is in the drive that the game expects, and I did that by checking for an exclusive longword at a set location on the disk that was not present on the other disks. The only problem with this method, is that everytime the game wants to load a new piece of data, you have to check the disk each time which means extra stepping down to the exclusive longword to ensure its present, whereas the original loader, whatever sector/track it loaded would have the correct information it was looking for, so it didn't need to do a separate step.

Go look on Planetemu for the BETA version of Aladdin to see how it was done, because you sure as fuck won't figure it out by looking at the Prodigy 'crack' of the full game, as Siriax is a moron!

[MethodGit]

Well would you Adam & Eve it! Managed to skirt around the loader issue by using uaeunp to create an extended ADF - one that actually works.

Now there's just the manual protection left to deal with. I was hoping to at least do a hex reference with one of the two cracks, but alas the eADF format appears to write data in a totally different manner compared to the standard format. I could make a WWP of the extended ADF to get a better look but then I'd be afraid that writing it back afterwards would lose the loader information the game requires (seeing as the first eADF didn't work properly and all). Hmmmm.

Still, very interesting to learn there was an overly complicated loader involved behind the scenes - looks as if Cool Spot was given a similar treatment too, seeing as that shows the same symptoms if imaged incorrectly. Were there any other Virgin games that did this?

Oh, and incidentally, are you suggesting that the Prodigy crack isn't 100% and/or has significant issues?

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by MethodGit

Well would you Adam & Eve it! Managed to skirt around the loader issue by using uaeunp to create an extended ADF - one that actually works.

Now there's just the manual protection left to deal with. I was hoping to at least do a hex reference with one of the two cracks, but alas the eADF format appears to write data in a totally different manner compared to the standard format. I could make a WWP of the extended ADF to get a better look but then I'd be afraid that writing it back afterwards would lose the loader information the game requires (seeing as the first eADF didn't work properly and all). Hmmmm.

Still, very interesting to learn there was an overly complicated loader involved behind the scenes - looks as if Cool Spot was given a similar treatment too, seeing as that shows the same symptoms if imaged incorrectly. Were there any other Virgin games that did this?

Oh, and incidentally, are you suggesting that the Prodigy crack isn't 100% and/or has significant issues?

The Prodigy version of Cool Spot is knackered, and yes, that uses the same disk system as Aladdin.

If Prodigy cracked Aladdin, i'd treat that version with the same contempt as well. It may be that its actually 100%, but I put Prodigy in the same category as Endless Piracy, utterly incompetant at the job they profess to being so 'good' at.

[MethodGit]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

The Prodigy version of Cool Spot is knackered, and yes, that uses the same disk system as Aladdin.

If Prodigy cracked Aladdin, i'd treat that version with the same contempt as well. It may be that its actually 100%, but I put Prodigy in the same category as Endless Piracy, utterly incompetant at the job they profess to being so 'good' at.

I thought you were talking about a Prodigy crack of Aladdin initially, but having checked the TOSEC it does look like they cracked both games!

[dlfrsilver]

Very interesting Galahad, what is exactly this disk format ? using GAP information between sectors ? Or another tricky thing ?

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by MethodGit

It can't be as simple as copy protection though.

Of course not, that's why the IPF works and your copy doesn't... Sometimes you really don't make sense!

Originally Posted by MethodGit

What I mean is that when you start up the system and it detects the existence of the disk, it goes kablooie there and then. Doesn't even try to load the game for at least a few seconds. It's almost as if it disagrees with the bootblock somehow, even though I hadn't changed a single thing about the image.

What does make you believe that a game has to load for a while before any protection kicks in? If something would be wrong with the bootblock you would just see the "insert disk" screen from the kickstart.

Originally Posted by MethodGit

Well would you Adam & Eve it! Managed to skirt around the loader issue by using uaeunp to create an extended ADF - one that actually works.

May I ask what you're actually trying to do? I don't see why you need to create an extended ADF when you apparently have access to the IPF's.
It's not that you cracked the protection by just creating extended ADF's.

Originally Posted by MethodGit

Still, very interesting to learn there was an overly complicated loader involved behind the scenes - looks as if Cool Spot was given a similar treatment too, seeing as that shows the same symptoms if imaged incorrectly. Were there any other Virgin games that did this?

The loader is not "overly complicated", it is just a normal custom loader. And yes, Cool Spot uses the same disk system/loader as Galahad already said.

Originally Posted by MethodGit

I thought you were talking about a Prodigy crack of Aladdin initially, but having checked the TOSEC it does look like they cracked both games!

The Prodigy "crack" of Cool Spot is utter crap and doesn't work correctly. See this thread for more information.

[MethodGit]

Originally Posted by StingRay

May I ask what you're actually trying to do? I don't see why you need to create an extended ADF when you apparently have access to the IPF's.
It's not that you cracked the protection by just creating extended ADF's.

I didn't say I cracked it, just that I got past the crash issue and that I mentioned what I did. I'm not sure how easy it would be to actually crack eADFs compared to standard ADFs, btw.

The loader is not "overly complicated", it is just a normal custom loader.

Well, it was pretty alien to me before Galahad explained it in detail.

The Prodigy "crack" of Cool Spot is utter crap and doesn't work correctly. See this thread for more information.

Yes, I recall checking out that thread quite recently. But I thought Galahad was saying that Prodigy's crack of Aladdin was also rubbish, and was wondering if it's dogged by the same issue that's blighting their Cool Spot crack?

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

If Prodigy cracked Aladdin, i'd treat that version with the same contempt as well. It may be that its actually 100%, but I put Prodigy in the same category as Endless Piracy, utterly incompetant at the job they profess to being so 'good' at.

Just to check if MethodGit messes around with this IPF to ADF stuff because the Prodigy crack is knackered, I played through it. At least it works until the end (and seems to be 100% as well).

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by MethodGit

I'm not sure how easy it would be to actually crack eADFs compared to standard ADFs, btw.

There is absolutely no difference. It is just a different format which stores more info but in the end, it's just a normal disk image. And since you don't really know much about cracking yet, I won't bother explaining more about it. Learn the basics first.

Originally Posted by MethodGit

Well, it was pretty alien to me before Galahad explained it in detail.

So something that is alien to you automatically means it is complex?

Originally Posted by MethodGit

Yes, I recall checking out that thread quite recently. But I thought Galahad was saying that Prodigy's crack of Aladdin was also rubbish, and was wondering if it's dogged by the same issue that's blighting their Cool Spot crack?

AFAIR the PDY version of Aladdin was OK, something you can't say about a lot of their "cracks".

[andreas]

Originally Posted by StingRay

AFAIR the PDY version of Aladdin was OK

I strongly hope so! Because as far as I can see, there's no other way out if...

- you want to play the FINAL version from DISK (without messing with WHDload)
- you have no manual to bypass the protection

Unless there's a better crack I don't know of

[TCD]

Right, that's exactly why I tested it instead of 'hoping'...
Anyway, still have no idea what MethodGit tries to achieve.