Bad Apple Amiga Version - Page 11

robinsonb5 · 04 March 2021, 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yannick

Hi,
I believe Ross and myself have been distracted by other things.
I will get in touch with him to define what both of us think is missing to release our version.

Any news on this? It would be really cool to have this released.

chip · 04 March 2021, 10:23

I agree too

ross · 04 March 2021, 10:56

Sorry, it's totally my fault.
I am busy with other things and I don't have time to look at it.

chiark · 04 March 2021, 10:57

The stage you got to is AWESOME, Ross, it's utterly brilliant.

I think the big sticking point is still the music, isn't it?

ross · 04 March 2021, 11:01

Main idea is also to add 'Amiga' effects to mask the lack of details. To make it a real demo

But yes, add proper audio in a minimal space is also a goal to reach.

chip · 04 March 2021, 11:07

Don't worry ross ..... we all understand real life comes first

chiark · 04 March 2021, 12:14

some of the effects to make details on TEK's Hologon demo are outstanding...

robinsonb5 · 04 March 2021, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ross

Sorry, it's totally my fault.
I am busy with other things and I don't have time to look at it.

No worries - in Amiga terms it's only been a few minutes, what's a few minutes more?

Foebane · 05 March 2021, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ross

Main idea is also to add 'Amiga' effects to mask the lack of details. To make it a real demo

But yes, add proper audio in a minimal space is also a goal to reach.

The point is, Bad Apple is based on an Anime, and the other versions have reflected that. No demo effects on top, thank you.

And why should it be minimal space? The other versions weren't, and the Amiga would be best suited to a single huge sample of the original song, like a lot of the best high-end Amiga demos use.

hitm4n · 05 March 2021, 15:40

I say chuck as many effects on it as you like. There are a million Bad Apple demos out there for all manner of systems and they are all the same (from the few i've watched) just at different resolutions and framerates. Make the Amiga version something special

ross · 05 March 2021, 16:05

I try to explain it better...

As it is now is a loader, unpacker, decoder, blitter polygon renderer and filler.

Sure it would stay that way, but for the self imposed purpose, which is to completely contain the animation in the better possible way in a single floppy disk, many compromises have been made.
Including the inevitable loss of details from the original animation (data is kept in pure black and white).
If we can add details thanks to Amiga's capabilities (for example add stars as sprites, add shadows with additional planes, fill shadows where needed) why not do it?
In practice, an 'overlay' of Amiga effects not to modify the original animation, but only to maintain details that are lost in the encoding.
And make it a true Amiga demo (and outperform every competing system in terms of space/quality)

Otherwise if you want to do a multi-megabyte animation, keeping the original grayscale and full sampled audio, this has already been done and there is no fun in doing it.

chiark · 05 March 2021, 17:02

Thanks for the explanation Ross, I must admit I think the real beauty of this challenge is that each system should make the most of its unique capabilities in order to deliver the best possible interpretation of Bad Apple.

Yannick · 05 March 2021, 19:00

As Ross already said, the challenge for me was to put on a single disk.
I’ve worked on the data extraction and format to make o proof of concept but I do not have asm coding skills. Since Ross started we have shown that squeezing this on a single disk if possible with acceptable quality.
I’ve also worked on a mod that could be used, but I’m not a musician and it could be widely improved.

The additional effects Ross is talking about are to further improve the visual quality at a very low memory cost.

malko · 05 March 2021, 19:25

Having delay is normal for things we do aside on our spare time.
Keep going as good as you can and no worries.
There will be always someone to kindly remind that the project is not finished

saimon69 · 05 March 2021, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane

The point is, Bad Apple is based on an Anime, and the other versions have reflected that. No demo effects on top, thank you.

And why should it be minimal space? The other versions weren't, and the Amiga would be best suited to a single huge sample of the original song, like a lot of the best high-end Amiga demos use.

Because is AMIGAAAAA and squeeze everything on a floppy (or two) is how we ride!
[and leave others envious we are able to do it]

malko · 05 March 2021, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by saimon69

Because is AMIGAAAAA and squeeze everything on a floppy (or two) is how we ride!
[and leave others envious we are able to do it]

So childish, but....YEEEEEEEEEEEEES !!!

Only Amiga makes it possible

sovenyimre · 25 April 2021, 16:52

Hello!

I tried to add some grey shading to improve quality in my version.
The shadow is in the second bitplane so I have a third shade of grey where the two bitplane mixes. The lines also drawn in other two bitplanes to look like antialiased lines to the grey.
No need for extra ram because the sample audio and vector data is streaming directly from hdd. (Will work with any protracker mod)
In this case I only cared for quality so it is slow in AMOS but it is a proof of concept but still small in size.
Download:
https://electricblacksheep.itch.io/b...iga-vectorized

Click image for larger version

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sovenyimre · 26 August 2021, 23:27

Hello everyone!

A vectorized version of Bad Apple 3D... just to update the project.
Does anyone already have music?
https://electricblacksheep.itch.io/b...iga-vectorized

alkis · 10 October 2021, 13:12

Ummm

[ Show youtube player ]

Edit: Ok, it's a hack [ Show youtube player ]

chiark · 04 March 2022, 18:33

As part of the Scorpion Engine demos there's a version of bad apple, with a good mod by JMD that weighs in at 84kb...

https://github.com/earok/scorpion-ed...jects/badapple

Worth a look?

26 August 2021, 23:27	#218
sovenyimre Registered User Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Hungary Posts: 94	Hello everyone! A vectorized version of Bad Apple 3D... just to update the project. Does anyone already have music? https://electricblacksheep.itch.io/b...iga-vectorized Attached Thumbnails

10 October 2021, 13:12	#219
alkis Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Athens/Greece Age: 53 Posts: 719	Ummm [ Show youtube player ] Edit: Ok, it's a hack [ Show youtube player ] Last edited by alkis; 10 October 2021 at 13:26.

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04 March 2021, 10:23	#202
chip Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Italy Age: 49 Posts: 2,942	I agree too

04 March 2021, 10:56	#203
ross Defendit numerus Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Crossing the Rubicon Age: 53 Posts: 4,468	Sorry, it's totally my fault. I am busy with other things and I don't have time to look at it.

04 March 2021, 10:57	#204
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	The stage you got to is AWESOME, Ross, it's utterly brilliant. I think the big sticking point is still the music, isn't it?

04 March 2021, 11:01	#205
ross Defendit numerus Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Crossing the Rubicon Age: 53 Posts: 4,468	Main idea is also to add 'Amiga' effects to mask the lack of details. To make it a real demo But yes, add proper audio in a minimal space is also a goal to reach.

04 March 2021, 11:07	#206
chip Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Italy Age: 49 Posts: 2,942	Don't worry ross ..... we all understand real life comes first

04 March 2021, 12:14	#207
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	some of the effects to make details on TEK's Hologon demo are outstanding...

05 March 2021, 15:40	#210
hitm4n Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Lincoln, UK Posts: 604	I say chuck as many effects on it as you like. There are a million Bad Apple demos out there for all manner of systems and they are all the same (from the few i've watched) just at different resolutions and framerates. Make the Amiga version something special

05 March 2021, 16:05	#211
ross Defendit numerus Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Crossing the Rubicon Age: 53 Posts: 4,468	I try to explain it better... As it is now is a loader, unpacker, decoder, blitter polygon renderer and filler. Sure it would stay that way, but for the self imposed purpose, which is to completely contain the animation in the better possible way in a single floppy disk, many compromises have been made. Including the inevitable loss of details from the original animation (data is kept in pure black and white). If we can add details thanks to Amiga's capabilities (for example add stars as sprites, add shadows with additional planes, fill shadows where needed) why not do it? In practice, an 'overlay' of Amiga effects not to modify the original animation, but only to maintain details that are lost in the encoding. And make it a true Amiga demo (and outperform every competing system in terms of space/quality) Otherwise if you want to do a multi-megabyte animation, keeping the original grayscale and full sampled audio, this has already been done and there is no fun in doing it.

05 March 2021, 17:02	#212
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	Thanks for the explanation Ross, I must admit I think the real beauty of this challenge is that each system should make the most of its unique capabilities in order to deliver the best possible interpretation of Bad Apple.

05 March 2021, 19:00	#213
Yannick Registered User Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: France Posts: 25	As Ross already said, the challenge for me was to put on a single disk. I’ve worked on the data extraction and format to make o proof of concept but I do not have asm coding skills. Since Ross started we have shown that squeezing this on a single disk if possible with acceptable quality. I’ve also worked on a mod that could be used, but I’m not a musician and it could be widely improved. The additional effects Ross is talking about are to further improve the visual quality at a very low memory cost.

05 March 2021, 19:25	#214
malko Ex nihilo nihil Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: CH Posts: 4,856	Having delay is normal for things we do aside on our spare time. Keep going as good as you can and no worries. There will be always someone to kindly remind that the project is not finished

25 April 2021, 16:52	#217
sovenyimre Registered User Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Hungary Posts: 94	Hello! I tried to add some grey shading to improve quality in my version. The shadow is in the second bitplane so I have a third shade of grey where the two bitplane mixes. The lines also drawn in other two bitplanes to look like antialiased lines to the grey. No need for extra ram because the sample audio and vector data is streaming directly from hdd. (Will work with any protracker mod) In this case I only cared for quality so it is slow in AMOS but it is a proof of concept but still small in size. Download: https://electricblacksheep.itch.io/b...iga-vectorized

04 March 2022, 18:33	#220
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	As part of the Scorpion Engine demos there's a version of bad apple, with a good mod by JMD that weighs in at 84kb... https://github.com/earok/scorpion-ed...jects/badapple Worth a look?

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