Patreon Discussion - Moved from "Metro Siege" thread...

[Retro-Nerd]

Paywall infos. Seems like the new plague in game developments too.

[seuden]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Paywall infos. Seems like the new plague in game developments too.

Yup.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Paywall infos. Seems like the new plague in game developments too.

Originally Posted by seuden

Yup.

Tell me about it

Really, really annoying.

...as I said in Richard's thread, maybe EAB should then charge developers who do this to promote their games here.

[seuden]

Originally Posted by DamienD

...as I said in Richard's thread, maybe EAB should then charge developers who do this to promote their games here.

I thought the exact same thing.

[Predseda]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Tell me about it

Really, really annoying.

...as I said in Richard's thread, maybe EAB should then charge developers who do this to promote their games here.

And that is why BitBeamCannon will not publish any news here I think. Quite unfriendly EAB approach lately.

[robinsonb5]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Tell me about it

Really, really annoying.

It seems to be infecting all walks of life - I saw a patreon link the other day for a *retailer* (not computer-related) who's now expecting people to support the production of his own promotional videos. Unbelievable!

...as I said in Richard's thread, maybe EAB should then charge developers who do this to promote their games here.

To be 100% fair to Richard, the links he's posted since then haven't been paywalled, but personally I think EAB would be perfectly justified in addressing the Patreon issue in its rules. Personally I'd be in favour of anything paywalled being removed, but non-paywalled links still being allowed.

Something about Patreon in general makes me uneasy, though - and I can't quite put my finger on why. Perhaps it's just that I'm seeing it being used to support the creation of works that are ultimately given away or open-sourced - which seems to me like a good use of the tool - but I'm also seeing it used to provide extra income for commercial products, which feels like double-dipping. (And yes, I get that in a market as small as ours it's hard to charge anything like enough to cover development costs, but still...)

[Gzegzolka]

It would be nice to have updates on that game here on EAB since I am sure lot of people here looking for that game. I do not mind linking to Pateron, it is creator decision and I respect it. Maybe, just maybe there should be info added to link that source of that link requires to pay for view. I am sure we are living in small community so getting as much people interested in Your project is important. Maybe make Pateron post available for rest users with two months lag, like people who support You can read updates on time You publish them and rest people some time later.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Predseda

And that is why BitBeamCannon will not publish any news here I think. Quite unfriendly EAB approach lately.

Publishing regular news and updates is a whole bucket of work on it's own. The guys at BitBeamCannon put a lot of effort making videos and preparing detailed updates for their Patreon page, which in term supports the studio's work with the games it creates. Metro Siege is a colabratory projet which involves more than BitBeamCannon though. When it comes to EAB, me and Alpine are responsible for this thread, so if anyone is to blame for the lack of updates, that's on us.

Having said the above also note that this thread has been kept 'Patreon free' so far (at least from our side and other than a refference in the very first post). I'd happily share my own take on the Patreon issue and EAB but perhaps on a different thread

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Hopefully this system will make coding the sequel easier

It's more of a needed step to complete the rest of this game actually.
However the whole engine will surely be available for a potencial sequel or other games in this genre

[alpine9000]

Just to clarify for everyone, that the bitbeamcannon Patreon is not the “Metro Siege” Patreon. Tsak and I don’t collaborate with Mike on its content (we can’t see the content either).

Tsak and I are always happy to post updates here, but in general we have preferred to not show work in progress stuff. Being on the perfectionist side of the spectrum, our updates tend to be only when we have something “finished” to show.

But having said that we should try and keep everyone updated more than we have.Tsak and I are both totally smashed trying to get this project (and others) done which doesn’t leave much time for creating update videos etc.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Predseda

And that is why BitBeamCannon will not publish any news here I think. Quite unfriendly EAB approach lately.

Don't make me laugh...

As you can see from the thread, numerous EAB members really dislike this paywall Patreon approach... having to subscribe monthly for a few sentences of information released maybe twice a month if you're very lucky. No thank you!!!

Again, these developers get free advertising on EAB for their games but then want to charge EAB users for miniscule snippets of developer stuff...

I'm sorry, you can't have it both ways...

Maybe things will change on EAB due to this rubbish. I'll discuss with other GMods / RCK.

[alpine9000]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Don't make me laugh...

As you can see from the thread, numerous EAB members really dislike this paywall Patreon approach... having to subscribe monthly for a few sentences of information released maybe twice a month if you're very lucky. No thank you!!!

Again, these developers get free advertising on EAB for their games but want to then charge EAB users for miniscule snippets of developer stuff...

I'm sorry, you can't have it both way... maybe things will change on EAB due to this rubbish.

I'll discuss with other GMods / RCK.

I think that’s a bit of an unfair characterisation of the situation here.

Bitbeamcannon is not active on EAB andI don’t think they are soliciting for their Patreon on EAB? In this case someone not involved with the project posted a link to the Patreon, not much we can do about that, more than happy for you to delete any Patreon links and discussion however.

Tsak and I don’t have Patreon, so any updates from us are most likely to appear here first as this is our “home” forum.

If you’re talking more generally, that’s fine, but maybe we should move this discussion to a new thread?

[DamienD]

Be that as it may alpine9000, but in general I believe EAB needs to rethink how it handles developers who post on EAB for free but then expect members to pay for snippets of information on Patreon.

Let's be honest, it's been a while coming, after all the discussion around Richard Lowenstein and his products.

Pixelglass (earok, Tsak and yourself) are not those people, so you have nothing to worry about.

[Predseda]

Sorry for posting a link to patreon, after someone asked if there is any progress in development. I didnt know it will start such an aggression.

I am not in any way connected with the team except I support them by few bucks monthly. Next time I will not post anything related and I will let it up to alpine, tsak or whoever.

Man, this is sick

[malko]

@Damien : +1

At the end, thanks for the news Tsak & alpine9000. You know people are following you here and that some of us will turn into customers when the time will come . So, waiting for other news and the finished product. What you showed us of the game already rocks !

[jeff b00toNic]

There shouldn't be any problem with Patreon links as long as the info (on a free board) is free of charge!

[roondar]

Indeed, I'd say using Patreon to spread news is not really the issue. Rather, I think that linking people to a post that requires you to pay is. If the link is to a free article, I don't see a big issue myself.

[Tsak]

So here's my opinion on the issue. First off about Patreon itself:

As a developer and while I'm not really interested in it, I can fully understand other devs using it. As I said above, it takes a large amount of your time to create content and regular updates. Writing articles on a weekly basis, producing tutorials and videos and sharing all kinds of detailed info about the develompent process takes much time and energy. I see no moral ambiguity there, so long the devs who maintain these pages don't just post snippets of info (as Damien implied) but actually produce good and plentiful quality content.

Besides content, Patreon also gives to the public the opportunity to actively support the dev in question and the development of his/her projects. This is completely different than an one-off donation or just buying the finished product. It's also different from kickstarter or other crowd funding methods in that it allows the supporter to be part of the process, providing motivation and verifying the project's progress on a monthly basis.

With the above in mind and in regards to Patreon posts and EAB in particular I'd fully agree with the gents before me. There's nothing wrong posting links that lead to free info.
But saying 'hey, here's some info about my game -> link -> paywall' rightfully pisses people off.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Tsak

As a developer and while I'm not really interested in it, I can fully understand other devs using it.

My stance as well.

On the other side, I understand your reservations as EAB mods to allow what is basically free promotion for an income scheme...

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Predseda

Sorry for posting a link to patreon, after someone asked if there is any progress in development. I didnt know it will start such an aggression.

I am not in any way connected with the team except I support them by few bucks monthly. Next time I will not post anything related and I will let it up to alpine, tsak or whoever.

Well to be honest: you did not provide any meaningful information in the first place, did you?

If you wanted to answer the question "is there any progress", than you could have written (in your own words), what you have learned on that patreon page. But instead you just provided a link with no further Information.

And not reading g this discussion I actually clicked on that link:
and the firs thing I see are monthly fees! covering the whole page.
yes you can scroll down from there ... just to find the first reals new information is indies for members only.

So please ask yourself:
in what way did you answer a question?
did you really provide meaningful information?