making a copy of Killing Game show

[kipper2k]

Hi all,

Just bought this, needless to say i want to make a working copy and save the original (don't want a hacked version)

Anyone know what will copy it ? (and how

[pmc]

Kryoflux...?

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by pmc

Kryoflux...?

nope, no ipf exists so basically need to try to make a working copy

[IFW]

There will be one it eventually... but there are so many things going on... so probably not anytime soon.

[pmc]

Why would there need to be an existing .ipf image for Kryflux to be able to make a copy of the original game disk...?

I thought that was the point of the Kryoflux hardware - that it could duplicate copy protected disks.

Am I just missing something and being monumentally stupid? (definitely a distinct possibility )

[IFW]

KryoFlux does not support writing something blindly, you need a source image file.
Since there is no source image for this title, it surely can't write it

KryoFlux hardware and software can read and write copy protected disks.
Creating an IPF file however is a complex process.

[Retro1234]

I think he means why cant he image his physical disk with KryoFlux then write it with KryoFlux?

Looks like the game can be imaged on an Amiga but not writen - long tracks
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=34819

[kipper2k]

i was reading that Nitro used the same protection. I actually did rip Nitro when it came out using a "donated" track loader and was able to get it working 100%, long time ago now, most my tools and notes were sold when i sold off all my gear back in the 90's (yah, i know sacrilige!. Been a long time since i done that kind of stuff,, no time.


mabbe if i get tools donated again i may do kgs as a "lemme see if i can still do it" experience

[pmc]

Originally Posted by IFW

KryoFlux hardware and software can read and write copy protected disks.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at.

The question was, to my reading at least: how can I copy my Killing Game Show original disk so that I can use the duplicate as my workaday copy. No one mentioned creating an .ipf image.

So when I answered: "use Kryoflux" I was kinda right then, no...?

Wouldn't it read the original and, in doing so, create an image that could be written back to a real disk (when the write supporting software is publicly released) thereby allowing a copy of KGS to be made as requested?

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by pmc

Yeah, that's what I was getting at.

The question was, to my reading at least: how can I copy my Killing Game Show original disk so that I can use the duplicate as my workaday copy. No one mentioned creating an .ipf image.

So when I answered: "use Kryoflux" I was kinda right then, no...?

Wouldn't it read the original and, in doing so, create an image that could be written back to a real disk (when the write supporting software is publicly released) thereby allowing a copy of KGS to be made as requested?

The error detection for that particular format is non-existent.

Essentially, the Softpres gang at the moment cannot readily guarantee a 100% reliable image of the game.

The game format is written blind, whereas just about any other game has built in error detection ensure that a read track is 100% read correctly, which means that the Softpres gang can determine quite quickly which tracks are malformed/errors etc.

[Retro-Nerd]

There is a least the 100% correct working extended ADF from Denis and Toni. Couldn't KyroFlux write this image?

[dlfrsilver]

Yes it should be if SPS adds ADF writing support Since any extended ADF can be written back if you use a a drive able to cope with longtracks

[whiteb]

Could the OP get a hold of WHDLOAD version, and use WWARP or MFMWARP to make a backup ?

I dont know if it would work, just a thought.

[mr.vince]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Yes it should be if SPS adds ADF writing support Since any extended ADF can be written back if you use a a drive able to cope with longtracks

Which would be equal to reading the disk as STREAM or DRAFT and write this back once implemented.

Would still be like in the old days: You make a backup (=something you do to prevent loss of data) and have no way to make sure that your backup will be good the moment you need it (=original fails). You blindly band the bits on the disk and hope data is good.

Denis... I understand that you have not better option at the moment, but even playing the game to the end does not mean the ADF is good. There might me alternate levels, hidden levels, special things happening when getting a bonus... that may all access data on disk you have not verified yet.

Psygnosis was just so damn stupid, and I actually do remember swapping disks for a bad game. It was a hassle (because you had to deliver proof that the disk was bad, which meant playing the game in the store until it failed) and could have been avoided if Psygnosis would have verified disks duped. Looking at how many cheap disks were bad in the day, Psysgnosis just accepted to offend customers.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by mr.vince

Which would be equal to reading the disk as STREAM or DRAFT and write this back once implemented.

the extended ADF contains the sectors the game use. Why would it require any extended analysis ? Toni wilen has reported that doll liquid rising is correct in the extended ADF i have generated. This game use a long track, which is correctly imaged (i used a big big length).

[quote]Would still be like in the old days: You make a backup (=something you do to prevent loss of data) and have no way to make sure that your backup will be good the moment you need it (=original fails). You blindly band the bits on the disk and hope data is good.[quote]

some originals can be preserved, but the datas were errored even before being mastered. this means that you will find the datas correct when creating the IPF, but the program in itself will be not working at some point correctly. this means someone must test and finish the whole game to be sure it's 100%.

Denis... I understand that you have not better option at the moment, but even playing the game to the end does not mean the ADF is good. There might me alternate levels, hidden levels, special things happening when getting a bonus... that may all access data on disk you have not verified yet.

Killing game show use files hidden on the disks, and it's easy to crack it, rip the files, kill the checksums and then train the game to get all the levels. that's why i sent to M9 from flashtro the extended ADF

Psygnosis was just so damn stupid, and I actually do remember swapping disks for a bad game. It was a hassle (because you had to deliver proof that the disk was bad, which meant playing the game in the store until it failed) and could have been avoided if Psygnosis would have verified disks duped. Looking at how many cheap disks were bad in the day, Psysgnosis just accepted to offend customers.

Psygnosis had the original files, the ability to generate as much masters as they want to. And even if their tracks were not checksumed, the copy protection must have been tested before going in the street. After, what's happening on disk with time is another story

It happened to me to swap with psygnosis liverpool my own version of Agony, because i got 2 disk 2 and no disk 3 in the box back in the day.
they sent me a replacement disk with no argue or discussion in any time
I remember saying them thanks for the games they did

[kipper2k]

Will cyclone with the hardware dongle using df0 and Df1 make a workable copy ?

[dlfrsilver]

nope, because the motor to write such long track must be slowed down, else you won't be able to write the game, even with 2 drives.....

[mr.vince]

What I meant was... Normally publishers did copy with verify. I am not saying the protection did not work or it can't be duped. It was just duped without verify (impossible for this format). If you have a disk that's physically damaged, you won't notice. This is what Psygnosis did. This has nothing to do with hidden files.

Consumer law gives you the right to exchange at your dealer, you don't have to send it back to the producer. I was not in the mood to wait six weeks to get a replacement.

I am not saying making an extended ADF is bad. I also don't want to discourage you. Many users appreciate your extended ADFs. I just wanted to point out you have no means to _know_ if the data for KGS or Nitro or one of the two others I don't recall is good. Assumptions are false friends when you archive or preserve...

[dlfrsilver]

Once trained, all the game levels can be checked thru the intro to the outro

And most of all, i inspect my disks carefully (they are stored in my room where it's dry, and i spot errors easily with powercopy (which has advanced error detection).

I know that i can't blindly say that it's all perfect, but i try my best to pull out fully working ADF (i spend quite some time to test my extended ADF before uploading).

[mr.vince]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

i spot errors easily with powercopy (which has advanced error detection).

I am sorry, but this is utter nonsense. Even the game itself can't. How can PowerCopy do this?

EDIT: Just to make sure... Denis... I have no intention to diminish your efforts.